posted on January 30, 2008 08:04:02 AM new
No, I'm not on vacation.
Consider foxy_facets, the highest-volume seller in the Jewelry and Watches category with 35,500 listings. foxy does a lot of things right and almost nothing wrong. They start many items at 1 cent or 94 cents. Shipping is a mere $3.95 and they will combine for an additional $1.95 per item. They get raves about their quick shipping.
Yet foxy_facets' DSR for shipping and handling charges is 4.3, the exact same as mine. I charge what some consider a high amount and I do not combine.
foxy_facets will not qualify for the PowerSeller program starting in July. You must have 4.5 or better on all 4 DSRs.
Discounts for PowerSellers kick in in April. You must have 4.6 or better on all 4 DSRs to qualify for a 5 percent discount. foxy_facets will not qualify.
Mind you, this is a seller who has live help available and a toll-free number, not to mention a 100% satisfaction guarantee.
What does eBay want, blood?
I find it immensely sad that this fine seller has had to resort to putting this in their listings:
We'll all be doing this before long.
fLufF
--
New! Work At Home discussion group. Find out what works and what doesn't.
[ edited by fluffythewondercat on Jan 30, 2008 08:05 AM ]
posted on January 30, 2008 08:51:02 AM new
Fluff, Your example of the effects of these new policies on an exemplary seller makes it crystal clear to anyone but eBay how this will pan out. Ebay could use someone like you--logical, unemotional and able to see the big picture.
[ edited by coach81938 on Jan 30, 2008 08:51 AM ]
posted on January 30, 2008 09:00:47 AM new
I don't know if you read the PS board, Fluff. There is a frequent poster there, emovieposter.com, who has come up with a fees plan for the 99 cent no reserve auction sellers. Here is a copy of one of his posts this am (he's at the top seller meeting in DC):
"Thanks for the support. Here would be an easy solution to this.
Add a new selling level (call it 99 cent, no reserve). Those auctions would start at 99 cents and no reserve (of course), and the insertion fee would be $2, BUT $1.80 would be refunded if and only if the item sells.
The final value fees would be the same as they were yesterday.
This would allow those sellers who want to list 99 cent, no reserve auctions to do so, and those who want to list under the new listing format could do so too. There would be no incentive to list cheap junk under this format, and the starting bid would have to be 99 cent and no reserves allowed.
This would allow myself and all the few remaining major 99 cent no reserve auction guys to stay, and would let anyone else list such auctions (which, until a few days ago, eBay was all in favor of!).
I think this solves everything. You guys still get your great new discounts, and eBay doesn't lose the auctions that got them started, and WHICH MOST USERS EXPECT TO SEE ON THE SITE.
Let me ask this: if eBay loses all its true 99 cent no reserve auctions (people like myself, jayandmarie, hessfine, etc, plus all the many smaller sellers who still use this format somewhat) won't those of you who sell new items (sunglasses, DVDs, etc) have a harder time selling them, when eBay turns itself into Amazon Lite?
posted on January 30, 2008 10:34:43 AM new
Most buyers don't have a clue how the DSR can hurt a seller.
So maybe foxy_facets has the right idea - educate them. Some just won't care but others will.
Some seller truly deserve the low rating they get but most problems are due to USPS delays or slower 1st class shipping. I offer 1st class and priority when I can but I know if the buyer picks 1st class there is always a chance that the shipping time star will get a chip. However if I don't offer 1st class - there goes my shipping and handling charge star.
To say this is a flawed system is an understatement. We just can't win.
posted on January 30, 2008 10:52:26 AM new
The whole structure is bias and only buyer friendly. Nothing is pro-seller
Buyer can receive the item then say they did not, or not pay at all, lie about the condition of the item, fuss about price they bid and what they paid for S/H -even if it is stated in the auction.Then post the seller a negative,and post low numbers on the sellers DSR. The buyer can do all this and maintain 100% Positive Feedback.
The seller will get negged, DSR lowers, and their items will be harder to find.
What can the seller do to defend their reputation .. nadda
O'they can sell for no profit, ship free and send even if they are not paid.
BTW... if a seller pays to list the same as any other seller WHY do they not get the same services?
To me,right is right, and wrong is wrong, whether it effects me or not.
So much is wrong now, it is just not any need to try to reason with eBay.
This is not good for us... and I doubt it will be good for eBay.
JMO
posted on January 30, 2008 11:40:23 AM new
I don't find it sad. I find it insulting.
Assuming that buyers are too dumb to offer an opinion without assistance or guidance is an insult.
If that many people are trying to tell you something, it may be time to listen. Most eBay buyers do not want to pay obviously padded shipping fees. They would rather see a higher opening bid instead. They've made that clear time and time again. Five minutes spent on the P & S board should tell you this.
Whether it is fair or not is a moot point. Whether you agree with it or not is a moot point. Whether it fits your business plan or not is a moot point. It's eBay.
That being said I do wish the DSRs would disappear altogether and I do not use them when I leave feedback for sellers. I also don't bid on things if I don't like the shipping fee but the fact is, many people do and they have every right to express their opinion.
posted on January 30, 2008 12:21:13 PM new
How many people look at a buyer's negatives when selling them something? My guess is about zero. The only time you look at a buyer's feedback is when they don't pay. Seller's feedback total is something most people look at. I've sold thousands of items on ebay and do not have a negative. I've bought hundreds of items on ebay and have very seldom left a negative. I've left a few neutrals when the dealer overcharges for postage. Sometimes when I do this I am left a negative by the seller, but I reply to the feedback with the reason why. Negatives can really hurt a dealer, but they don't really hurt a buyer. Now ebay is punishing the majority of good sellers, to try to get rid of the minority of bad sellers. While most sellers and most buyers are honest people, it is the deadbeats in both categories who ruin ebay. Completely eliminating the ability for sellers to leave feedback is a problem. Now buyers can hold dealers hostage. I have perfect feedback as a dealer, because I am ethical. But allowing buyers and sellers to leave feedback is the only fair way to handle it. They have forgotten about Pierre's business model of feedback. Now some buyers can leave a negative feedback for any reason they deem necessary. I doubt anyone looks at a buyer's feedback. As long as they pay for the item the seller is happy. But negative feedback does have an effect on a seller. Especially now that ebay is forcing some sellers into using Paypal. The one time I've used Paypal to try to recover money from a seller, they ruled in my favor but couldn't give me my money back because the seller had no money in his account. I called my credit card company and got the money back immediately. Looks like they are looking at the bottom line and eventually going to force everyone into Paypal. Greed is going to hurt the site. When they raise the fees, it doesn't raise the price I sell the item for. It just costs everyone more money. Feedback has little importance to the buyer as it doesn't effect their ability to buy. Feedback has a greater importance to a dealer. Both sides should be able to leave feedback. That's called checks and balances. Once the new system starts, there will be no way of reigning in a bad buyer. Now most buyers are good. But the few bad ones can come on and just start slinging arrows with no fear of any consequences. If I see someone has left a negative for a seller, I can check and see what kind of feedback the buyer has gotten (from everyone, not just that seller). That can give me an idea if the negative is justified. The same goes for a buyer. He can look at the sellers feedback and see how many negatives. Ebay is tying powerseller discounts to getting a 4.8 star in ratings. I never charge extra for postage. Sending items first class, media mail, when possible. Yet I only have a 4.7 rating for shipping cost. They offer a discount to Powersellers, but the highest discount appears to require that you get a 4.8 star rating in each category, which is near impossible to get. Once again I'm sure they have run all the numbers for the Powersellers in their system and figured out that the percentage of Powersellers with 4.8 stars in all categories might be 5% of Powersellers, or even less! Of course ebay has all the numbers, so they can see exactly how many millions more dollars they can make by adjusting the numbers. Old price structure it would cost $1.65 if you listed an item for $20 and it sold for $20. New fee structure: costs $2.30 if the items sells. That's 65 cents more, a 39.4% increase in the cost! What bothers me is that I have to pay 65 cents more to sell a $20 item. And of course items are not going to sell for more money because of this. My only choice will be to raise the minimum price I list items for. And that, of course, will lead to some of my items not selling. Of course ebay is the biggest , and basically the only game in town. But they will be opening the door for some smart people to start up a site with much lower fees so they can get a foothold. I would just like to see ebay become a smart company that helps buyers and sellers. Not a corporation that just keeps raising prices, to reward stockholders. I used to run 10 day auctions for more exposure. After they raised the price I stopped doing that. As they keep raising fees, they are going to hurt their business. They know how many, that's why they set the standards. 15% sounds like a big savings, but of course very, very, very few people could even reach that. They are a corporation who runs the numbers and knows exactly how much the average auction sells for, so they know exactly how much to lower the listing fee and raise the final value fee to extract millions more. Ebay is a great site for selling. It doesn't really have any parallel. But the sellers made the site great. I just wish ebay would just raise their fees a little. Not cost me a 40% raise in fees when selling an item for $20! 40% increase in fees is too much!
posted on January 30, 2008 12:37:44 PM new
OK - I thought you wanted to talk about the fatal flaws in ebay's changes in general - the DSR issue is not the only fatal flaw. The .99 cent auction seller with 100% sell through is also a casualty (as you no doubt know). The pricing system benefits sellers like me who list a lot and have a lower STR. The increased FVF barely affects me because it is offset by the lowered listing fee price on all the items that don't sell. That is not the case with the .99 cent model. They will take the increase in the shorts. It's ironic that ebay has been saying that the .99 cent auction model represents the "magic" of ebay and yet designs a pricing structure like this. I am happy with the pricing changes as they affect my business (not talking DSR here) but I think that running off the largest auction sellers will hurt all of us.
As for the DSR's - INSANE! Buyers don't know how to use the stars and do need to be educated. When taking a survey, I rarely give the highest ranking unless I am totally WOWED by what I am evaluating. On EBay, a 5 means you are happy with the transaction - anything less means you are not happy and that is not good enough for eBay. The most important question: "Would you buy from this seller again?" is not even asked. Sellers who offer FREE shipping are getting 4.6's on the shipping cost DSR's! I almost think they need to have Price Waterhouse or an independent firm come in to audit the math of those ratings! We all know how flawed eBay math can be.
I went back pretty far in foxy_facet's FB and saw that the FB blurb was in the listings as early as December 15th http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160188760374
so it apparently hasn't helped the ratings much (don't know what they were like before). (By the way, how did they do the BIDZIT-type format at the top of their store home page? It's great!)
It looks like they've set up a second ID sterlingcoachdesigns to handle the sterling jewelry and those shipping costs DSR's (4.6) are better.
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posted on January 30, 2008 12:50:23 PM new
"I am happy with the pricing changes as they affect my business (not talking DSR here) but I think that running off the largest auction sellers will hurt all of us."
How will this hurt all of us?
They can either adapt or they can run elsewhere. If they choose to run there are plenty of other sellers to replace them. The supply of cheap, made in China beads and jewelry and used, OOP Cds is not going to suddenly dry up come February.
"Sellers who offer FREE shipping are getting 4.6's on the shipping cost DSR's"
Do have an example of this actually happening? I keep hearing this story but I haven't yet seen an example and I am curious.
posted on January 30, 2008 12:58:00 PM new
zippy - the big sellers bring a lot of buyers to the site and keep them coming back. They are, for the most part, GOOD sellers and represent eBay well.
Many of my postcards are purchased by people who are not collectors - who just stumbled upon my listings somehow, some way. I think the site will be harmed if there are fewer and fewer of those random type buyers around.
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posted on January 30, 2008 12:59:18 PM new
Tom - channel advisor has a tool for this - someone will post the link I am sure. If you hover your mouse over the stars of a particular seller, a number should show.
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posted on January 30, 2008 01:01:27 PM new
I can remember back when I belonged to IMA (before they charged dues) there was a large seller who stated this (I think she sold lingerie) - I will see if I can figure out who this was.
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posted on January 30, 2008 01:29:38 PM new
Tom, it's www.dsrwatch.com.
Beatlelist, how about paragraphs? I'm not just being snide (well, I am being snide, but the issue is real), but with my 56-year old eyes I just can't read a dense pack of text like that.
As regards education, way back when I first began, I needed education about feedback. I thought that a neutral was a neutral, rather than a half-hearted negative. I left one for my first purchase; the item was what it was advertised as, delivered in a reasonable time, with reasonable packaging. I didn't think it was exceptional, so I marked it neutral. I learned, but one reason I learned is that the recipient of that neutral knew that I left it and could respond to me. That can't happen with DSRs, by design.
posted on January 30, 2008 01:35:39 PM newDo have an example of this actually happening?
It's too much trouble for you to type "free ship" in an eBay search box?!?
Here ya go.
280194155699
230216121411
280196371869
...and thousands more. They are neither rare nor hard to find. They are, in fact, so NOT RARE that it's difficult to believe eBay doesn't know that free shippers get their stars dinged, too, at just about the same rate as non-free shippers.
posted on January 30, 2008 01:37:06 PM new
I am adding this to all follow up emails after an item has been paid for:
Due to new rules instituted by Ebay, please help me to continue to provide excellent items at well below retail. In order to do this, when leaving feedback please leave all 5s with the stars. Ebay requires this of all Power Sellers in order to maintain current services. Your satisfaction is my aim. Thanks for your continued support.
posted on January 30, 2008 01:53:50 PM new
neglus: I hadn't looked at jayandmarie's auctions in a long time. Already it looks pretty grim for them; they're living on a very slim margin.
Jay Senese has been open about the prices he pays for media and well, we all know the costs. Here are some recent auction sales:
Add to that the fact that they did not change their shipping fee when the post office raised prices last spring (it's still $3.45) and I think they're close to the end. Fee increases make it a near-certainty.
posted on January 30, 2008 02:22:06 PM new
"zippy - the big sellers bring a lot of buyers to the site and keep them coming back. They are, for the most part, GOOD sellers and represent eBay well."
Neglus, I agree that many are good sellers and good representatives but many are not. Remember Bargainland? I think if you weigh the people who are turned on by their big seller experience against the people who are turned off by their big seller experience, it will be pretty close to a wash.
This opinion is partially based on the experiences I have heard about from offline friends and family who use or have used eBay.
I also know new, good, big sellers are popping up all the time.
posted on January 30, 2008 02:22:54 PM new
Fluff - Our local news just did a little story on the "Death of the CD". I know I have purchased more music this year for my ipod through Apple than CDs. Good thing jandm are selling DVDs as well
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posted on January 30, 2008 04:23:35 PM new
Look at the bigger picture-
Ebay is not meant to be a place to list 35,000 listings ,if you have so many items to sell,you should have your own store.
Ebay is a cyber flea market,it should not expect buyers to spend much time rating individual seller !
With millions of buyers and sellers,a buyer and his seller may never cross path again!
*
Lets all stop whining !
posted on January 30, 2008 04:28:29 PM new
Zippy, try this one: 110217963078 Did not check every single auction, but in the ones I checked, they say something like, "as always shipping is free." Their star for shipping is 4.7. In addition, in my search I found many sellers who, although do not have free shipping exclusively, have free shipping on many of their auctions. The ones that were not free seemed very reasonable. They had star ratings as low as 4.4. Sorry I could not give you more examples, but gotta get to work.
posted on January 30, 2008 04:41:18 PM new
Re: Original post and the shipping DSR. More than likely a function of the fact that buyers do not like to pay more for shipping than the price of the item they got. Even if the piece is 99c, it irks them to pay 3.95 -- perceived value in this case and a classic case of buyers not adding to come up with a true cost of item. One of the reasons I can buy heavy items with high shipping quite reasonably on eBay ...
posted on January 30, 2008 04:45:07 PM new
I checked my ratings, I still qualify for the discounts, but that could change. Ironically, my lowest is shipping, and that is 4.7 - and I have a business model on ebay where I give free shipping with a qualifying purchase amount. It really would be crazy if I fall below 4.6, yet my overall feedback is 99.93%
Overall, very dissatisfied with ebay. Each year, my ebay totals go down. Before these rate changes, I thought it might be a chance to get back into ebay, but that won't happen. I pretty much only do store business, and with the FVF going to 12% and little traffic directed from ebay, I believe I have found an off ebay alternative that is going to probably mean I will lose powerseller status anyway on ebay. It's been fun, I've been here since 1997, but the writing is on the wall.
posted on January 30, 2008 04:47:55 PM new
If foxy_facets with 35,000 listings has to plead with her bidders to give her high ratings so she can capture the 5% discount,she is not making enough $$.
She should raise her price !
She can easily raise her shipping from $3.95 to $4.25,many did.
*
Lets all stop whining !
