posted on January 30, 2008 05:10:19 PM new
Thanks, Coach! That was more along the lines of what I have been hearing about and looking for.
The "as always shipping is free" seller does have some shipping fees on a few listings. Very reasonable (in fact underpriced) fees ($5 for UPS!) but fees nonetheless.
I personally don't understand why anyone would complain about $5 for UPS shipping but I know some will.
They also have some listings with no shipping fees mentioned (just the check item details or contact seller notice) and also no mention of "as always shipping is free." They may have forgotten to click the free button or they may be charging fees after the fact. I can't tell.
I also see that they ship internationally and I know that no matter how many times sellers say "contact me for a shipping quote" many international buyers neglect to do so and then some will likely complain and ding stars.
I also think there are people who buy an item with free shipping, find the item for sale cheaper elsewhere, realize that the shipping was built into the BIN price (duh moment) and then whine about the shipping fees. Never mind that the other place may charge more for item plus shipping in the long run. They will still whine.
"The ones that were not free seemed very reasonable."
The problem is, what seems reasonable to eBay sellers may not seem reasonable to eBay buyers. I have no problem paying shipping and handling charges when I shop but I understand that envelopes, bubble wrap, etc, all cost money. Many buyers still don't get that. They probably never will get that. These are the people that will bring a completely unwrapped item to the PO and then scream when they don't get free tape and bubble wrap to go with their PM box.
posted on January 30, 2008 05:24:20 PM new
Thanks, Sthoemke. That was an interesting example too.
I think their TOS may have something to do with their DSR.
"Shipping is FREE only when you send us a check or money order in the mail. If you elect to use Paypal or a credit card through our retail store, you will be REQUIRED to pay for FULLY covered insurance as well as delivery confirmation. WE.SHIP.FREE encourages payments in the mail as they cost us less money to process. We NEVER charge any other handling fee or shipping fees. We will not accept PAYPAL for any orders under 5.00 dollars..."
I wouldn't complain about paying for insurance and DC while receiving free shipping but it looks like some do.
They also seem to be slow shippers. Perhaps some give a low rating for shipping time and then carry their miffed feelings over to the next star which is shipping and handling?
I bet people are also miffed about having to send a check or MO for orders under $5.00. That may carry over too.
posted on January 30, 2008 05:46:34 PM new
Zippy, The way I see it, the shipping issue is kind of subjective, especially with inexperienced buyers. That is one reason the star system is not a good one. The seller thinks his shipping and handling price is reasonable. The danged set of 6 Baccarat stems took an hour to wrap properly. He used a mile of bubble wrap and 2 buckets of peanuts to insure that the goblets would make it safely across country. Priority to zone 8 is almost $15.00, plus insurance. Seller adds $2.00 handling and feels underpaid for all the work and material. Buyer, on the other hand, thinks the seller has a lot of nerve charging $2.00 handling (which does not even cover expenses) and can't figure out why postage is so expensive (ask the USPS!) Buyer is not happy, even though he got the Baccarat at a fraction of retail so....ding, ding, ding!
posted on January 31, 2008 05:37:29 AM new
Another Flaw in Ebay's reliance on "stars" is that they are too subjective. What is REASONABLE vs VERY REASONABLE?? What is QUICKLY vs VERY QUICKLY??
Somethings can be quantified. Spell it out! shipping time: within 3 days, VERY QUICKLY, within 7 days, QUICKLY, etc.
I am not saying buyers will always use these guidelines when leaving stars, but at least they will be aware of what is appropriate. Many people think reasonable, quickly, accurate, etc are good responses. They don't deal in superlatives. They might think VERY QUICKLY mean arriving at their doorstep the next day, etc.
To base so many important aspects of selling on these stars without more guidance for the buyers is insane!!
posted on January 31, 2008 08:55:35 AM new
I agree Merrie. Rating sellers with the star
system, which is a subjective thing at the moment, is unfair and inaccurate in it's present state. I'm not so worried about so-called "crazy" buyers or buyers who want revenge. They are rare. If ebay were to have guidelines/tutorials to educate buyers on what is reasonable to expect and what is not, they might mean more.
Getting dinged on the shipping star because the USPS rates are exhorbitant shows a lack of understanding by the buyer. Pointing out shipping rates may help.
Since eBay is putting so much weight on these stars, and our ratings will affect our businesses, you would think that they would do more to make sure buyers know how to rate sellers.
posted on January 31, 2008 11:03:11 AM new
When you are asked to fill out a form rating something, how many times would you ever give anyone perfect marks for everything. You might just mark them down because nobody's perfect. Yet Ebay's new rating system is expecting sellers to be perfect. It's just plain wrong!
posted on January 31, 2008 11:16:26 AM new
I have been a "mystery shopper" in the retail environment for several years. The evaluation reports are usually very extensive, but the bottom line is - did the employee meet a clear standard or "go beyond?" Earlier, I think it was Fluffy, clearly expressed that meeting the standard of reasonable expectation is worthy of a 5. I would agree based on how the major companies are giving credit to their employees for doing the job exactly as they are expected and it is not subjective at all. Ebays star system number meanings are not clear whatsoever to buyers.
posted on January 31, 2008 11:44:44 AM new
"Yet Ebay's new rating system is expecting sellers to be perfect."
They're expecting a 4.5. That's not an expectation of perfection. A 4.5 is quite do-able. Unless you* are terribly lazy or you* decide to dig in your heels and stick to a business plan that clearly does not work on eBay.
posted on January 31, 2008 11:55:31 AM new
Again, the problem is not conducting business at 4.5 (I believe that most sellers on this board do that and better,) it is conducting business at 4.5 or better and getting 4.0 from a naive or blissfully uninformed buyer.
posted on January 31, 2008 12:06:51 PM new
In order to get the highest discount, you need over 4.8 on every category, not 4.5.
# DSRs of 4.6 or more (based on the last 30 days): 5% Final Value Fee discount
# DSRs of 4.8 or more (based on the last 30 days): 15% Final Value Fee discoun
[ edited by merrie on Jan 31, 2008 12:09 PM ]
posted on January 31, 2008 12:27:56 PM newA 4.6 is still very do-able. A 4.8 may not be do-able for all but it is quite possible if you are willing to provide exceptional service.
On a rational planet populated solely by androids scoring transactions objectively, what you say is true.
As a helpful guide, here's a definition of objective:
Not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased.
The average eBay buyer, unless s/he has real world experience in shipping and related costs, not just idle notions about how much something "should" cost, is entirely unqualified to be deciding whether or not the cost of shipping an item is reasonable.
It used to be this didn't matter. Sellers who clearly stated their shipping fee and policies could not be faulted (and should not be). Now, under the new eBay fascist regime, sellers must conform or be ground into the dust.
posted on January 31, 2008 12:38:25 PM new
Fluff you are exactly right:
It used to be this didn't matter. Sellers who clearly stated their shipping fee and policies could not be faulted (and should not be). Now, under the new eBay fascist regime, sellers must conform or be ground into the dust.
If you state your shipping fees up front as any sensible seller does, then that is the end of the story, not VERY REASONABLE, don't buy!!
Zipp:
If I had a prof that was unreasonable, I could talk to him/her and usually we could work something out. It was still under my control.
[ edited by merrie on Jan 31, 2008 12:39 PM ]
posted on January 31, 2008 12:40:56 PM new
Conform = not assuming that buyers are complete idiots who will not only be thrilled that they are paying $6.00 for First Class Mail, but will also rate the experience as a 5 out of 5.
lol!
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we all know they should not bid if they don't agree to the s/h charge up front. In a perfect world, they wouldn't. But this isn't a perfect world. It's EBAY.
posted on January 31, 2008 12:49:07 PM new
"A 4.6 is still very do-able. A 4.8 may not be do-able for all but it is quite possible if you are willing to provide exceptional service.
I would not expect exceptional rewards unless I am providing exceptional service.
Did you expect to earn a 4.0 or a 4.5 GPA in high school without taking AP classes and working your butt off?"
Zippy, The point is, most of us conduct our business at 4.8. The problem is that many buyers don't use objective criteria to rate us. We get penalized because the USPS rates are high or USPS was slow to deliver or they are just having a rotten day. Having problems with a professor can be talked out and if you convince the professor he erred, the grade can be changed. Not so here. The anonymity of the star system allows us to get unjustly dinged without recourse.
posted on January 31, 2008 12:52:33 PM new
Merrie, it's still under your control. That's the point.
I know exactly why I don't have perfect DSRs. It's because I am not doing a job that is worthy of a 5 every single time.
I do try, but I don't try that hard. I don't communicate. I don't send emails when I ship. I usually ship fast but not always. I know exactly what I do wrong and where I am lazy.
If it were more important to me, if the discount were an issue to me, I would be busting my butt. I would not be standing at the door with a pathetic look begging for something I have not earned as in "leave me all 5s so I can get my discount because asking you to do that is easier than actually working harder to be a better seller."
posted on January 31, 2008 01:01:36 PM new
"The point is, most of us conduct our business at 4.8."
That's YOUR opinion. Your buyer mileage may vary.
I have several pages of reviews on Yelp for my B&M business. I do take those very seriously. When a customer is dissatisfied with something and makes the time to write a review, I take a very close look at how I can improve that area of service.
I could assume that the people who write the reviews are all idiots incapable of forming an opinion, and that I am just perfect because my mommy told me so and why oh why don't they see it too, but what would be the point in that? How would that make my business stronger?
posted on January 31, 2008 01:09:50 PM new
I don't see any point in continuing this discussion when you come back with the equivalent of "Nyah! Your mother!" to any point anyone tries to make.
It's unfortunate. I think the issues merit real discussion, as they are causing pain to a great many of us. You seem to be relishing that pain, so much so that it seems you have some sort of grudge against sellers that keeps you from being objective.
I wouldn't want you as a buyer. You clearly are not capable of rating a transaction fairly.
posted on January 31, 2008 01:26:03 PM new
"A 4.6 is still very do-able. A 4.8 may not be do-able for all but it is quite possible if you are willing to provide exceptional service"
A 4.6 is do-able, but it is easy to fall on the other side of it. I have 4.9/4.8/4.8/4.7 - My 4.7 is in shipping, which I believe is unreasonable, as I even offer a free shipping offer on purchases over a certain dollar amount. Under that amount, it is flat rate (low) for 1 or 5 items. I ship within 2 business days, and though my listings say media mail or ground, I almost always upgrade to first class.
Right now, I have almost 11 years on ebay. My lifetime feedback is 99.93% positive. My last negative was more than a year ago, and I presently have a lifetime total of 13 negatives, and over 60,000 positives. With all of that, I am outside their range for the best discount. If I can't get it, who can? Don't you think their standard is a tad bit high?
posted on January 31, 2008 01:28:04 PM new
Oh, what is ironic is that I have a different ebay account where I am unreasonable on the shipping. The point of that account is to sell things cheap that I have in bulk, but charge a lot more for shipping - I don't offer any sort of discount at all, no combined shipping. I had someone purchase 4 cheap dvd's and they paid $20 in shipping (though the dvd's were practically free) - and my DSR on shipping is a 4.6 on that account. Go figure!
posted on January 31, 2008 01:28:11 PM new
My husband actually had a good point (almost hate to admit it reguarding REASONABLE vs VERY REASONABLE shipping marks. He mentioned that if you live on the coasts, east or west, your shipping may seem higher than if you live in the middle of the country. For me to ship a 2 pound item to the west coast, priority mail, it costs $10.55, can use flat rate box, if the item fits into it.From somewhere closer, the postage for the same item is half that. I know many people sell small items and their shipping is pretty consistent, but mine is not. Also, if a customer pays via Paypal, a percentage of that postage fees are going to Paypal.
Yet people are allowed to GRADE me on postal fees.
posted on January 31, 2008 01:35:19 PM new
ebayvet: You are right on. I have similar statistics. Short of "begging" for stars, my shipping costs will keep me from getting the big discounts. I think it was devised that way, dangle the carrot with little chance of reaching it. My friend that only sells a few items would qualify via the stars, but she is not a POWERSELLER. There's the rub. If you do enough business to qualify as a POWERSELLER, in all likelihood, you will not qualify via the stars.
This way they can tell the press and stockholders that have offered these discounts, but they are not attainable.
reguarding REASONABLE vs VERY REASONABLE shipping marks. He mentioned that if you live on the coasts, east or west, your shipping may seem higher than if you live in the middle of the country. For me to ship a 2 pound item to the west coast, priority mail, it costs $10.55, can use flat rate box, if the item fits into it.From somewhere closer, the postage for the same item is half that. I know many people sell small items and their shipping is pretty consistent, but mine is not. Also, if a customer pays via Paypal, a percentage of that postage fees are going to Paypal.