posted on May 11, 2002 11:48:16 AM new
Did anyone notice that the Travelers Insurance logo is no longer on PayPal's site? The site used to state that "each account is insured by Travelers against unauthorized withdrawals up to $100,000." All such reference to this appears to be gone. Does this mean that if you keep your funds in the money market account it is no longer insured against unauthorized withdrawal?! I know that if you elect to not get interest, you get the FDIC insurance, but don't you think PayPal should let people know about this change? I mean, doesn't PayPal really really push the money market account and all???
posted on May 11, 2002 08:52:49 PM new
I just called, they said their Money Market Accounts are no longer insured by Travelers. I also asked about unauthorized account activity, and they said it was possible that we wouldn't get our money back if someone got into our account and transfered money from our bank account or PayPal account. (While I rarely use it I do still have an account to occasionally by things, using a credit card). Damon, is this true, that accounts are no longer protected against unauthorized activity?
[ edited by andrew123s on May 11, 2002 08:53 PM ]
posted on May 12, 2002 09:19:12 AM new
That doesn't really have much to do with the fact that our accounts don't seem to be insured against any unauthorized withdrawals.
posted on May 12, 2002 02:15:46 PM new
Andrew I wish I could remember the person I talked with at Travelers a couple of months ago, but you'd be amazed. That policy had a 250k agragate deductable and so many loopholes in it that actually travelers was not responsible unless paypal paid out bigtime for being hacked.
posted on May 12, 2002 02:47:19 PM new
When my PayPal account was fraudulently accessed, Travelers was the only company that helped me. Now that they are gone I do not know how someone would get help. PayPal's phone reps gave me misinformation, they almost never responded online (and when they did the responses did not address the problem) and when I complained to the Better Business Bureau PayPal wrote that I was at fault even though the phone reps had already acknowledged they had made the errors, not me.
[ edited by Flaoisland on May 12, 2002 02:50 PM ]
posted on May 12, 2002 03:26:53 PM new
flaoisland,
so what is the bottom line?was your account hacked?if so,did traveller reimburse your loss??
i asked why paypal money market is earing more interest than other has nothing to do with hacking and traveller,but i just wonder why 1.89% ,does anyone know what it invests in??
posted on May 12, 2002 03:31:38 PM new
250,000 deductible??
this brings back the issue of what is paypal,paypal itself is the party in the credit card transaction with our customer and his/her credit card company (we are not).
paypal is the policyholder of this hacking insurance with travellor,we are not.
if paypal has the dough,then it will reimburse us for the first 250,000 and then file claim with travellor for any amount over 250,000
i thought paypal damon said paypal site has never been hacked??.
posted on May 12, 2002 06:30:54 PM new
Guys I think I saw where it said unauthorized withdrawals not hacked. That in it self is ambigious (might have spelled that wrong). Does that include the possibility of employee theft?
It also sounds like Travelers put pressure on paypal to take care of the situation. Damon has said alot of things that didn't gel.
I think we're getting the idea paypal isn't telling all. Just like the PASS THROUGH FDIC insurance. Paypal is making millions in interest. check the FDIC link. Notice below that your screwed if paypal goes insolvent or does not keep good records.
If you do not enroll in the Money Market Fund, then in the unlikely event that an FDIC-insured bank in which we place your money fails, your balance placed at the bank would be subject to FDIC pass-through deposit insurance coverage, along with any other deposits you hold at that bank, up to a total of $100,000. Pass-through deposit coverage is contingent upon PayPal maintaining accurate records and on determinations of the FDIC as receiver at the time of a future receivership of any bank at which we place your funds. FDIC pass-through deposit insurance protects you only against the failure of the bank at which PayPal places your funds, and does NOT protect you against PayPal's insolvency. Through the terms of our User Agreement, we believe that your funds will also be protected from any claims of PayPal's creditors and will be returned to you even in the unlikely event of a PayPal insolvency.
posted on May 12, 2002 06:44:37 PM new
most of us do not have that much in our paypal accounts.
anyone who is doing large volume should apply for a merchant account.
posted on May 12, 2002 10:11:42 PM new
I'm not saying Travelers would be of any help directly (except for presuring PayPal to fix customer's problems). But when there was travelers insurance (when it was displayed on their site), the official policy of PayPal seemed to be to reimburse account holders if there was an unauthorized withdrawal.
I just looked at their terms of service again and it still looks like PayPal should reimburse you if there are unauthorized transactions (section VI of the terms of service). So it looks like I was told incorrect information from a CSR when I called recently (saying it was possible that I might lose the money if there was an unauthorized transaction). The apparant loss of travelers insurance seems to affect PayPal more then customers, since PayPal will still have to reimburse account holders for losses from unauthorized transactions, they just wouldn't be able to therefore file a cliam with travelers. Or maybe they still do have travelers insurance but they are removing website references to it, since it doesn't really affect customers since they would get reimbursed from PayPal anyway.
However, I have no idea whether section VI applies to money market accounts.
Hopefully Damon will provide clarification to this.
posted on May 13, 2002 10:30:31 AM new
this is a forum for expressing personal views,if you think i am a troll of paypal,well you will be very disappointed.
i accept paypal and i use the debit card to pay for usps shipping,but i have under 200 dollars in paypal.
this is how much i am willing to risk for using paypal/
if you are not comfortable with its services and gurantee and its customer service or lack of it,then close your account and go with billpoint,c2it,propay and others.
people who keep large sum with paypal know why and what they are doing,just worry about yourself and let those folks take care of their own money.
right now i have 183 dollars and after my trip to the post office,it will be less.
posted on May 13, 2002 10:37:41 AM new
when i said,
anyone who is doing large volume should apply for a merchant account."
i mean it makes good business sense,it is cheaper and you get more control and get proceeds deposited into your bank account regularly and you get a statement every month and you get better customer service.
posted on May 13, 2002 02:31:45 PM new
Mr. PayPal: What do you mean when you say "Money Market are entirely separate from unauthorized transactions." My funds were in your money market account when my account was fraudulently accessed. It directly effected the money market account because funds were taken from it. It used to be that you stated the money market accounts were protected up to $100,000 against unauthorized transactions. How much are they protected up to now? Please answer.
posted on May 13, 2002 03:48:22 PM new
Mr.PayPal: I am not confusing anything at all. I resent your Clintonesque answers. Previously your money money accounts were insured to $100,000 against unauthorized transactions by Travelers. Now you do not give an amount. Your response is not required.
posted on May 13, 2002 03:54:41 PM new
Hi Flaoisland,
I am not trying to give you incomplete answers. I am trying to find out where the concern is. As a reminder, posting on boards can be a tough medium to convey what I am trying to express.
Yes, accounts are still insured against unauthorized access. I am also confirming if the dollar amount is still the same (100,000.00) with our policy team.
The Money Market is a feature of the account. However, balances are kept at the account level. Any unauthorized transactions would occur from the PayPal account.
This is the exact response I got back on the issue, which I checked on with our legal team.
PayPal is still obligated to cover customer losses for unauthorized transactions above $50 if the customer reports it within 2 days of finding out, or above $500 if the customer reports the unauthorized transaction within 30 days. This coverage is unlimited - in the highly unlikely event that the customer's loss is above $100,000, if they report the unauthorized transaction promptly we have to cover the whole thing.
Of course, the safest way to prevent the frustration of having an unauthorized transaction is to keep your password secure (our SECURITY section of the site has many tips that apply to internet security in general).
While I can certainly appreciate the need for instant information, I do have to check certain items when there is a change. I was also trying to point out that all of the features of an account, including Money Market, are account features.
I believe that there are two portions of our User Agreement dealing with unauthorized transations. One applies to the debit card, the other to the PayPal account. I think there is the possibility that the two are being confused.
Electronic Fund Transfer Rights and Error Resolution
It is very important that you contact us at once if you believe your user ID or password has been compromised, or if someone has transferred or may transfer money from your account without your permission. Under applicable banking regulations, the extent of your liability for an unauthorized transaction is largely determined by your promptness in notifying us or your bank if someone has gained access to your password, or if a transfer or withdrawal in your monthly statement is incorrect or unauthorized. Notifying us quickly limits your liability:
If you notify us within two business days after you learn that your password or other means to access your account may have become known by an unauthorized person, you can lose no more than $50.00 if an unauthorized person uses your password or other means to access your account without your permission to initiate a transaction. If you do not notify us within two business days, and we can prove that we could have stopped someone from using your password or other means to access your account without your permission if you had told us, you could be liable for as much as $500.00.
You can inspect your transaction history at any time by logging in to your account on the PayPal website. If your transaction history shows electronic funds transfers that you did not make or authorize, notify us at once. If you do not notify us within 60 days after receiving notice, you may not recover any money you lose after the 60 days if we can prove that we could have stopped someone from taking the money if you had notified us in time. If a good reason (such as a long trip or hospital stay) kept you from notifying us, we may extend the time periods.
In case of unauthorized transactions, payment problems, errors or questions about your account, you should notify PayPal through application messaging or e-mail. You must: 1) Tell us your name and primary email address; 2) Describe the error or the transaction you are unsure about, and explain as clearly as you can why you believe it is an error or why you need more information; and, 3) Tell us the dollar amount of the suspected error. If you tell us by telephone, we may require that you send your complaint in writing within ten (10) business days. We will tell you the results of our investigation within ten (10) business days after we hear from you, and will correct any error promptly. If we need more time, however, we may take up to forty-five (45) calendar days to investigate the complaint or question. If we decide to do this, we will provisionally credit your transaction account within ten (10) business days for the amount you think is in error, so that you may have the use of the money during the time it takes us to complete our investigation. If we ask you to put your complaint or question in writing and we do not receive it within ten (10) business days, we may not provisionally credit your transaction account. If we determine there was no error, we will mail you a written explanation within three (3) business days after we finish the investigation. You may ask for copies of documents which we used in our investigation. We may revoke any provisional credit provided to you if we find that an error did not occur.
ATM/Debit Card User Agreement
If you tell us within two days after you learn of the loss or theft, you are covered on MasterCard's Zero Liability policy someone used your Card or other Access Device without your permission. If you do NOT tell us within two business days after you learn of the loss or theft of your Card or other Access Device, and we can prove we could have stopped the unauthorized transactions if you had told us, you could lose as much as $500.00. Also if your on-line statement shows transactions that you did not authorize, TELL US AT ONCE. If you do not tell us within 60 days after the Periodic Notice is transmitted to you, you may not get back any money you lost after the 60 days if we can prove that we could have prevented the transactions if you had told us in time. A transfer is not considered unauthorized, and you will be fully liable, if you have given a person your Personal Identification Number (PIN) or debit card.
