Flaoisland
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posted on June 6, 2002 09:13:50 AM new
Subject: PayPal & Online Gambling - Violating Visa Policies?
I am just wondering about what someone pointed out to me in PayPal's latest quarterly report
-- our payment system remains susceptible to potentially illegal or improper uses. These may include illegal online gaming -- despite measures we have taken to detect and lessen the risk of this kind of conduct, we cannot assure you that these measures will succeed
Has PayPal ever tried Google and searching for the words PayPal and casino? It does not seem their measures to detect illegal gambling are working?
[ edited by Flaoisland on Jun 6, 2002 09:20 AM ]
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Flaoisland
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posted on June 6, 2002 09:18:29 AM new
Also did you know MasterCard Visa Amex so on do not allow online gambling charges anymore? The reason is people who gambled and lost sued MasterCard because online gambling is illegal. And they won. So how can PayPal put through these charges without getting them rejected by the credit card companies? Why would Paypal want these transactions. Couldn't someone use Paypal and sue them if they lost money just the same way they sued Mastercard?
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club1man
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posted on June 6, 2002 10:05:05 AM new
Payponzi wants these transactions because it means big bucks in their pockets. As far as suing them, remember they hide behind that arbitration clause, which is to expensive for people. Same with the porn sites.
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Flaoisland
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posted on June 6, 2002 10:23:41 AM new
But Visa MasterCard etc must not know about these transactions because they definitely do not allow them no way. Paypal says 40 % of their transactions are non auction. How much of that is gambling? Don't forget class actions suits are all right so if a lot of people gambled with Paypal they would sue them like that
[ edited by Flaoisland on Jun 6, 2002 10:30 AM ]
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Flaoisland
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posted on June 6, 2002 10:29:13 AM new
Also why not just go through the google list and stop those casinos from accepting Paypal. Then no problem for Paypal.
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club1man
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posted on June 6, 2002 10:41:11 AM new
Because it means big bucks to them just as leaving a scammers account alone until absolutely necessary. When the credit card companies grt wind that PAYPONZI is circumventing their rules then and only then will they stop.
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Coonr
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posted on June 6, 2002 12:35:35 PM new
Here is a news flash for you. Not all gambling, online or otherwise is illegal.
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thchaser200
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posted on June 6, 2002 04:39:33 PM new
No, not all on line gambling is illegal, but the legal ones most likely have their own merchant account
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Flaoisland
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posted on June 6, 2002 04:40:38 PM new
In almost every state online gambling is illegal. I never said anything about regular gambling. Paypal says itself once again
-- our payment system remains susceptible to potentially illegal or improper uses. These may include illegal online gaming -- despite measures we have taken to detect and lessen the risk of this kind of conduct, we cannot assure you that these measures will succeed
The credit card companies do not allow online gambling charges.
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club1man
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posted on June 6, 2002 05:58:42 PM new
http://www.freecasinocash.net/wincontest.html They list most of the casino's dealing with PAYPONZI and openly instruct you to fund your PAYPONZI account with credit cards. the site has been up over a year.
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uaru
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posted on June 6, 2002 08:15:58 PM new
club1man http://www.freecasinocash.net/wincontest.html They list most of the casino's dealing with PAYPONZI and openly instruct you to fund your PAYPONZI account with credit cards. the site has been up over a year.
Club1man, I looked at a few of the casinos in the web page you reference and noticed they seem to accept credit cards directly. These were some of the casino payment options on the page you offer: Nile River, Jackpot City, PiggPeak, all seem to be accepting credit cards or PayPal, so this particular 'Payponzi' rant of your's doesn't make much sense to me.
I even noticed one casino in your link that seems to instruct people they can't use PayPal if their credit card isn't accepted directly. Look at this payment option link first and then look at this warning* it offers about using your credit card with PayPal in this link from the same casino.
* Please note that if your credit card purchases at online casinos are being rejected, you will not be able to fund your casino purchases with the credit card option on PayPal, you will therefore have to fund with your bank account.
Hey, personally I'd never use an online casino, but I don't care if others do are not, I'm not presently in the morality squad at the moment. I challenge anyone to walk into a casino in the US and not find dozens of ATM machines, or other machines where they can get instant cash advances from their VISA or MasterCard.
Club1man, I particularly enjoy your outrage over the casinos especially since it was your last such outrage that prompted me to point out your advertising banner for online casinos on your web page. Nothing worse than a reformed hooker is there? 
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club1man
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posted on June 6, 2002 09:37:34 PM new
Naturally you didn't include the fact that I pulled the banner and that it was part of a banner swap. Also you didn't point out that after you made the big stink over my web site that I did say that I saw nothing wrong with gambling. Guess you just forgot that! The fact of the matter which you seem to intentionaly bypass it the fact that when the credit card companies stopped allowing transfers to these sites, PAYPONZI (you hate it when I use that term)saw a way to make big bucks by violating their agreement with them.
Call me a hooker you fool, I'm not for sale to anyone. If i was I would have let PAYPONZI buy my silence.
"so this particular 'Payponzi' rant of your's doesn't make much sense to me."
It's this attitude that only goes to bolster PAYPONZI's demented executives into believing that they can continue to rape their customers when it comes to their hard earned money. They ride in limo's while call their customers "SUCKERS".
[ edited by club1man on Jun 6, 2002 10:10 PM ]
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uaru
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posted on June 6, 2002 10:20:38 PM new
club1man The fact of the matter which you seem to intentionaly bypass it the fact that when the credit card companies stopped allowing transfers to these sites
Really? Then I'm missing something and need your guidance.
When I looked at the site you referenced http://www.freecasinocash.net/wincontest.html it shows many links to online casinos. I looked at 5 of the casinos in your link and all 5 of them took credit cards directly as one of their options.
I'm sure there are credit card issuers that don't allow transactions with online casinos, but it is news to me that VISA and MasterCard as a whole don't allow their cards to be used at online casions. It must be recent news to those online casinos in your link too because every one of those casinos seem to accept Visa or MasterCard directly, and display their logos.
BTW, "PayPonzi" doesn't bother me, it amuses me. You can say "Doodo Company" if you prefer, it's your keyboard. It looks a bit funny for a grown man to use a practice you'd expect from a 9 year old. I'd think it a bit of a liability when you expect people to take you as a serious businessman. Then again your web site is a liability when you want to be taken for a serious businessman also.
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club1man
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posted on June 6, 2002 10:35:49 PM new
here post my other web sites
http://hometown.aol.com/club1man/PAYHORROR.html
http://hometown.aol.com/club1man/myhomepagebusiness.html
http://hometown.aol.com/club1man/MYCASHFLOW/index.html
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club1man
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posted on June 6, 2002 11:03:13 PM new
Here's where your casino's are. Gee I noticed the first two have the same owners but what's interesting is South Africa. Don't think I saw that country on PAYPONZI's approved list.
Registrant:John & Kernick (In Trust) (RIVERNILECASINO7-DOM)Kernick House, Howick Close,Waterfall Park, Midrand, Gauteng 1685ZADomain Name: RIVERNILECASINO.COMAdministrative Contact, Technical Contact undas, Neil Duncan (NDD10) [email protected] and Kernick / Bowman Gilfillan IncKernick House, Howick CloseWaterfall park, Midrand, South AfricaMidrandZA+27 11 315 7400 (FAX) +27 11 315 7444Record expires on 13-Mar-2004.Record created on 13-Mar-2002.Database last updated on 7-Jun-2002 01:39:17 EDT.Domain servers in listed orderESSPECIAL.VIANET.CA 209.91.162.238DNSSPECIAL.MCB.NET 195.10.114.3
Search Results
Registrant:Bowman Gilfillan Inc t/a John & Kernick (JACKPOTCITY5-DOM)Kernick House, Howick Close,Waterfall Park, Midrand, Gauteng 1685ZADomain Name: JACKPOTCITY.COMAdministrative Contact, Technical Contactundas, Neil Duncan (NDD10) [email protected] and Kernick / Bowman Gilfillan IncKernick House, Howick CloseWaterfall park, Midrand, South AfricaMidrandZA+27 11 315 7400 (FAX) +27 11 315 7444Record expires on 31-Aug-2003.Record created on 31-Aug-2001.Database last updated on 7-Jun-2002 01:44:39 EDT.
:Casino Enterprises (Pty) Ltd (PIGGSPEAK-DOM)P.O. Box 1218Houghton, 2041ZADomain Name: PIGGSPEAK.COMAdministrative Contact:Moshal, Martin (MM7833) [email protected]. Box 4652Durban, 4000ZA+27 82 551 1031Technical ContactNS Administration (DA25-ORG) [email protected] Internet SolutionPO BOX 3234Parklands, Gauteng 2121ZA+27 11 283 5500Fax- +27 11 283 5401
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Flaoisland
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posted on June 7, 2002 09:16:08 AM new
Please do not turn this thread into another personal conflict battleground. Visa MasterCard so on do not accept online gambling transactions in the United States. That is a fact. Call them and ask. Online casinos accepting credit cards directly has nothing to do with what I am asking about. If an online casino has found a way around the credit card rules then what does that have to do with Paypal. Nothing. If an online casino has found a way around Paypal rules then that is exactly what I am talking about.
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club1man
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posted on June 7, 2002 10:34:10 AM new
Your right. I will ignore Uaru in the future so the subject matter can be addressed.
The fact is that PAYPONZI may have stated that in their filings with the SEC to try to avoid admitting that they actively help casinos get around the credit card company rules. IE. the credit card companies do not allow card holders to use their cards to make deposits to casino accounts, so PAYPONZI allows customers to deposit into their accounts and then transfer to the casinos and avoid the credit card company rules. It's better known as money laundering.
[ edited by club1man on Jun 7, 2002 10:46 AM ]
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ltlcrafty1
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posted on June 7, 2002 12:31:41 PM new
Flaoisland
"Visa MasterCard so on do not accept online gambling transactions in the United States."
Does that refer to the charge coming FROM the US? If it does, I'm sure that is why many of the big on-line casino's are 'based' in the Caribbean, etc.
Paypal appears to knowingly be doing business with more than just a few of these sites. I received a "junk / spam" e-mail the other day from some big 'bingo house' advertising that they had just 'Partnered with PayPal - to make your registration process quick and easy'. I also know that I have seen that some of the higher profile on-line casino's do accept PayPal. I don't see how it's possible that they're 'Partnering with Paypal' without PayPal's knowledge.
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club1man
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posted on June 7, 2002 01:44:24 PM new
read Payponzi covering their tracks.
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Flaoisland
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posted on June 7, 2002 04:48:03 PM new
Ltlcrafty1: The credit card companies in the U.S. now have rules to not accept online gambling charges it doesn't matter where they're coming from.
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dealerjim
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posted on June 8, 2002 02:31:45 AM new
When you deposit credit card funds into your PrayPal account the CC company sees a charge from PrayPal and not the casino. PrayPal then allows you to fund your casino account without the credit card companies even knowing whats going on. PrayPal doesn't care if that person may have a gambling problem, but the credit card companies do because they know that those people are less likely to pay back a gambling loss. PrayPal just wants their vig no matter how they have to go about getting it. Pretty slimy on PrayPals part if you ask me. Maybe those credit card companies should do a little investigating.
[ edited by dealerjim on Jun 8, 2002 02:33 AM ]
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Coonr
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posted on June 8, 2002 04:26:59 AM new
I was in Las Vegas last year and EVERY casino I went in had ATM machines where you could get money from any of your major credit cards.
Paypal is no more a social monitor than any bank. I see no one condeming banks, because they allow checks or money orders to be used for gambling transactions.
There has been several comments about Visa and Mastercard having rules about on-line gambling charges. Where are those rules found?
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Coonr
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posted on June 8, 2002 04:48:39 AM new
Did someone foreget to tell this casino about the on-line gambling rule?
http://www.starblastcasino.com/html/banking.html?from=0&act={08F60487-4E00-4408-AC4F-24FF7CA25288}
or is Visa not enforcing the rule?
So much for the the credit card companies looking our four your best interest.
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club1man
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posted on June 8, 2002 05:42:04 AM new
If you took 5 minutes to research it this is what you'd find
Visa:Credit card transactions will appear in the name of "www.gfslonline.com/015" or "IFUND-CREDIT SYSTEMS" on your monthly statement
Organization:Gateway Financial Services Ltd.Gate WayCaribbean PlaceProvidenciales, BWI Box657TCPhone: 1Fax..: 1Email: [email protected]
A payment service in the west indies
Credit cards are still allowed for LEGAL gambling in casinos but on-line gambling is illegal in most states.
[ edited by club1man on Jun 8, 2002 05:45 AM ]
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Coonr
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posted on June 8, 2002 06:19:07 AM new
From the Gateway Financial Services home page, it appears they are NOT a "payment service" but a Merchant Account provider.
Welcome to Gateway Financial Services Ltd. (GATEWAY). A payment solutions provider for the new economy. GATEWAY provides a complete, online payment solution, enabling merchants to conduct business over the Internet.
The 'life-line' of any Internet business is the ability to process payments online and in real-time. Understanding the mission critical nature of its service, GATEWAY prides itself on providing industry leading levels of services, system availability and security to its merchants.
In addition to robust transaction processing, GATEWAY also provides the merchants with a suite of reporting and querying tools to aid in the day-to-day operations of the merchants' businesses. Through this website, GATEWAY merchants have full access to all of their transaction history and reports.
If you took 5 minutes to research it this is what you'd find Paypals TOS says,
Prohibited Transactions. You agree that you will not use PayPal to accept payment for illegal products or services, including but not limited to materials that infringe the intellectual property rights of third parties. You will not use the Service, the PayPal website or any of the services offered therein for any unlawful or fraudulent activity.
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mrfoxy76
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posted on June 8, 2002 03:21:40 PM new
i wonder what would happenif you fundeda casino account using paypal via cc....then charged back the card if you lost. specially as 99.9% of the casinos are not covered by paypal international policy!!!!
judging by previous users comments regarding international transactions you would have a good case to get your money back!
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Coonr
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posted on June 8, 2002 06:23:42 PM new
Buyer complaints only apply to certain items. This policy applies only to the sale of tangible, physical goods and excludes all other sales and services
If you do what you suggest, you will most probably get a restricted account, and could even face fraud charges.
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mrfoxy76
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posted on June 8, 2002 09:53:41 PM new
I am not suggesting to do this at all I am just curious as to what would happen as somewhere in the paypal TOS they state they do not cover international transactions with the exception of a few countries and none of these casinos are setup there. So therotically follow the paypal TOS and you cannot lost gambling!
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andrew123s
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posted on June 8, 2002 09:57:06 PM new
No, that would be illegal (charging back money if you lose), and PayPal's TOS says it can not be used for illegal transactions.
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Flaoisland
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posted on June 8, 2002 10:48:19 PM new
Mrfoxy76: Asked what would happen if you gambled with Paypal and then charged back. In a way this is what happened with Mastercard and this is why the credit card companies do not accept illegal online gambling. A woman in California sued Mastercard after gambling and losing money. Mastercard lost because online gambling is illegal in CA and practically every state. They are not allowed to accept transactions for illegal gambling. Paypal also states they do not accept illegal online gambling. I started this discussion since an easy Google check finds so many online gamblers take Paypal and it is so easy to find them so why does Paypal not search on Google?
[ edited by Flaoisland on Jun 8, 2002 10:50 PM ]
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