If it is someone who bid on one of YOUR auctions it is considered by ebay to be fee avoidance.
If it is a bidder on someone elses auction it is considered by ebay to be auction interference. It is considered by others to be bottom feeding.
SO?
Well, consider this, what if the first bidder on someone elses auction backs out. The seller can offer the item to the second bidder. However, if you have sold to the second bidder the second bidder won't want the first sellers item. How would you feel if it happened to you? The seller paid to list the auction and took the time to set the auction (pictures, text, ect.,). Why should you benifit off the sweat of another seller?
posted on October 13, 2000 03:06:17 PM new
Maybe I did not make myself very clear.
The auction, where the bidder did not win, was because the reserve was not met. The other seller wanted more than me, well don't know exactly what s/he wanted because reserve was not met. There was no sale to be made. I do not have a reserve on the item.
I was just looking around ebay to see if anyone else tried to sell the same item. This is how I found that there were bidders on this item, but with no sale.
Does this clear up the fact that I would never try to steal someone else's bidders.
posted on October 13, 2000 03:15:04 PM new
Sometimes, I email eBay and get answers back that don't answer my question specifically. I sometimes wonder if they actually read the question or if they just scan quickly.....
You will be told different things by different folks. To answer your question as best I can: If you have the item already up on auction, you probably will not violate any rules UNLESS the bidder you send the email to perceives it as SPAM. Then they can complain to ebay. If they don't perceive it as spam, but a really nice gesture on your part, to point them to ANOTHER items like the one they missed out on, you will be fine.
You are not attempting to avoid paying a fee if you are pointing them to a current auction.
You are not interfering with an auction, if the auction is YOURS.
Just my opinion and I am NOT a POWER SELLER! so consider the source!! Sulyn
I just saw your second post, we were posting at the same time. If you are thinking of sending email to people who previously bid in your auctions, there is less chance of having it perceived as spam than if you are emailing people who had bid on OTHER auctions, even though they are closed. I guess it's a judgement call.
[ edited by sulyn1950 on Oct 13, 2000 03:20 PM ]
posted on October 13, 2000 03:27:28 PM new
sissyclarke - I would not. The buyer will find you and be twice as hungry having just lost. You only need have your item listed where and how it can be found. Proper catagory, good search words, spelled correctly. You put out the bait, the buyer comes to you.
posted on October 13, 2000 05:46:09 PM new
The definition of sending spam per eBay is: "Sending unsolicited, commercial email, including unwanted email to past bidders."
posted on October 13, 2000 06:12:19 PM new
Actually the seller with the reserve auction could make a deal with the highest bidder even if the price did not meet the reserve. It is still that sellers buyer.
Just a FYI: Ebay doens't have a problem with a seller in a reserve auction making a deal with the buyer if the reserve was not met (although they do suggest not doing 'out of auction' deals). I've done it and emailed ebay to find out what I owed. I was told that it would be to hard to keep track of billing and to, "not worry about it."
Something else, you are taking that sellers buyer. How? Because you found a bidder that you know is interested in that item (otherwise why would they have bid?) without paying for the fees or listing an auction.
posted on October 13, 2000 06:22:39 PM newI have a question. Should I contact a bidder who bid on an auction, but did not win, to let them know that I have the same item up for auction?
This is "spamming an auction". I've reported many such to safeharbor, and sure enough, safeharbor seems to actually take action against the spammers. I think they warn once, then suspend.
Any time you send an unsolicited email to anyone which references an auction, that's spamming the auction. The context doesn't matter at all.
posted on October 13, 2000 08:49:29 PM new
Of course you should Email them! I never cease to be amazed at the naive responses you can get to questions on here. The people you contact will probably be overjoyed to hear about it. It is not fee avoidance. You can cut a deal with anybody you like anywhere you want. Be bold and you will make more money.
These message boards are filled with people who are looking to play lawyer and give out advice, who don't live in the real world. My advice - STEAL OTHERS' BIDDERS. That is actually the name of the game the whole time. That is what you are doing the whole time you are using Ebay for any auction, when you put in the perfect title, the perfect description, etc.
[ edited by skyscout on Oct 13, 2000 08:51 PM ]
posted on October 13, 2000 08:54:17 PM new
SG52, who are you that you have so much time that you can go reporting all these people to SafeHarbor. You make me want to puke.
posted on October 13, 2000 08:54:51 PM new
sissyclarke, some sellers do it, most don't. My advice is not to do it...it could make someone mad at you and they will accuse you of spam. Pretty soon you will be so busy with your booming sales you won't have time to do that anyway! Good luck.
posted on October 13, 2000 11:34:52 PM new
From the "real world" of ebay rules, per glenda's link above:
Sending spam - Sending unsolicited, commercial email, including unwanted email to past bidders....Disciplinary action may range from a formal warning, up to indefinite suspension of a user's account...
Despite skyscout's claim that turning in spammers "takes so much time" that it makes him physically ill to contemplate, all it takes is for the "spamee" to hit the "forward" button on your email and bounce it right over to SafeHarbor.
Certainly, you may not get turned in. But why run the risk? Surely nobody but skyscout is so desperate for hits.
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Oct 13, 2000 11:35 PM ]
posted on October 13, 2000 11:55:20 PM new
i agree with skyscout on this one.. if you have a product to sell and you see someone who "lost" the bid on ebay.. <p>
i say e-mail them and try to work something out with them on the product.. most prople are very cool about it.. <p>
if the high bidder turns out to be a dead beat.. by the time the seller knows it.. it is usually too late the person who lost the bid has already turned around and won it else where..<p>
what you r doing is saving them the time and trouble of looking for it elsewhere
<p>
but that is only my opinion
<p> most people are very cool about it and will not report you.. ebay has been know to do thing about spamers from time to time.. but that is if you do it all the time.. if it is a once in a while thing they usually turn the other way.. that is what i have learned in my almost 3 years using ebay
posted on October 14, 2000 07:17:15 AM new
Thank you everyone for all of your comments.
skyscout, Mzalez and arabus thank you for not taking everything so seriously.
Glenda and lotsofuzz (sp) Still don't understand about your comments of stealing someone else's buyer's. So what you are saying, before you list something, you should check first to see if someone else doesn't already have it up for auction.. That way you don't run the risk of stealing or taking away from that other seller's buyer base. Is this correct?
Then I ask myself, why does ebay make it so easy to check on closed auction, along with bid history.
Isn't that what this is all about, putting things up for auction hoping that buyer looking will pick yours.
Please, I am getting more confused with this simple question. But always learning and I love that.
posted on October 14, 2000 07:33:56 AM new
I had a seller contact me after I lost the bid for a portable computer accessory. His email was, in my opinion, spam. I am perfectly able to search eBay on my own for the items I'm looking for. His technique of "bottom feeding" just didn't set well with me. I didn't report him however, I just ignored his email.
As a seller, the only time I have contacted a past buyer was on two occasions. Both times the buyers had asked me to let them know if I found any more glassware in the pattern they had bought from me. I did, and they bought the items.
posted on October 14, 2000 07:40:31 AM newsissyclarke -
All it takes is one complaint about spam and you would be dealing with eBay's erratic enforcement. To quote Dirty Harry ... do you feel lucky?
skyscout
Do the math. There are several thousands of sellers of some items ... how many of them do you want spamming you every time you bid and lose?
Ethics aside, getting a spammer's account cancelled saves the email boxes of dozens of others.
posted on October 14, 2000 01:05:00 PM new
[i]Glenda and lotsofuzz (sp) Still don't understand about your comments of stealing someone else's buyer's. So what you are saying, before you list something, you should check first to see if someone else doesn't already have it up for auction.. That way you don't run the risk of stealing or taking away
from that other seller's buyer base. Is this correct?[/i]
Nope, not what I was saying. Will try to be more clear:
Buyers are 'fair game' until they bid on an auction. Sellers do their best to make the best auction possible so that a buyer will pick their item over another sellers item (good pics, clear text, ect.,). That is what Ebay is all about.
However, once the bidder has picked which auction they are going to bid on and have gone ahead and bid on that auction they are no longer 'fair game'.
If someone does not list an auction but instead finds a bidder through anothers work (ie., finding someone who is in the market for a similar (or exactly the same) item by looking at bidding histories) that person is benifiting (possibly making a sell) of the seller who listed, and paid for, that auction.
As for 'stealing' bidders: It is a common practice, if the first bidder falls through, to contact the second bidder to try and make a deal. Yes, sometimes the second bidder, having lost, has already moved on. Sometimes not. Also, and I've had this happen, the highest bidder backs out almost as soon as the auction ends ("opps, I bid on the wrong auction," to, "I ain't paying, screw you.".
Why should someone who has not paid for nor taken the time to list an auction have access to the second bidder who was drawn to the item by the work of the seller who listed an auction? If you want to ignore the 'moral' part of the argument, you should at least know that you are breaking a real rule on ebay. Actually, several: Fee Avoidance (you are using Ebay to make money while not paying Ebay for their service), Spam (bidding on a certian item does not mean the buyer wasn't ANY of that item, only the item that they have bid on. Therefore, a offer to sell from another party is unsolicited and therefore Spam), Auction interference (certianly if done during while the auction is still going).
Something else to consider: When making deals 'off ebay', meaning a deal outside of a closed auction, the buyer had NO protection against the fraud of a seller. If the seller doesn't deliver and/or the item has been misreprestented the buyer can not 1)Leave feedback, 2)Use ebay's insurance.
When I recieve the kind of spam associated with bottomfeeding, I always wonder, "If this seller is so trustworthy, why don't they just list the auction?"
It is true that you may not be reported for your spam emails to other sellers bidders. It is also true that you very well may be reported (the reporting process is VERY easy: Hit the forward button and address the email to [email protected]). You have been shown the rules (the links are available on this thread) it is, of course, up to you if you follow them or not.
posted on October 14, 2000 01:29:35 PM newStill don't understand about your comments of stealing someone else's buyer's. So what you are saying, before you list something, you should check first to see if someone else doesn't already have it up for auction.
No, sissyclarke. My comments were specific to the question you originally asked: if you could email bidders from another seller's reserve-not-met auction to let them know about your auction.
That seller might put the item up for auction again, and if you had emailed their bidders and they then bid on your auction instead of the other one, then you would have "siphoned away" the potential re-bidders from that auction.
Then I ask myself, why does ebay make it so easy to check on closed auction, along with bid history.
I think that when eBay originally set up the system, they didn't think about people spamming, bottomfeeding, bid siphoning, auction interference, etc. - and I strongly suspect that they will eventually make it much more difficult to do those things. Just because you "can" do something, doesn't mean you "should" do it.
posted on October 14, 2000 02:18:27 PM new
Glenda, Your logic is totally bizarre. Guess what? That's life. Not everybdy wins. I try and siphon as many bidders off of others auctions as I can. Oherwise, I couldn't list on Ebay at all for fear I might steal somebody else's bidder. Once the other person's auction is up, then it is beside the point as to whether or not your new auction/deal has stolen their bidders for their relist! SG52, maybe you should find a new cause like world peace or something. I think you are really taking "spam" emails far too seriously.
posted on October 14, 2000 03:26:25 PM newskyscout, if that's your ebay ID, your FB (not to mention the responses you left to the negs you got) and the negs you've left all speak eloquently for your business philosophy.
posted on October 14, 2000 03:33:19 PM new
HartQuilts, I have only 5 negatives and I don't think that is bad for over 200 positives. My responses to their negatives were reasonable. I am not going to go screwing myself in order to make every conman who's trying feedback blackmail happy! I have seen people with like 2000 positives and no negatives. That doesn't impress me. They are just making life hard for the small timers with their "customer is always ALWAYS right" philosophy. I would say what I really think of of your comments it wouldn't be appropriate for the boards.
so consider the source!! Sulyn
