posted on April 16, 2002 11:27:30 AM new
Hello Damon,
I have sent 2 emails to you and have no response. Call me paranoid, but with as much money in your system, I am not able to wait 30 days for an answer to whether anyone there is working on this issue.
Here is part of the email I sent to you.
Hi Damon,
I have a paypal account - ~~~~~~~~~
I paid $1350 to ~~~~@~~~~~~ and he is locked out of his acct.
He said he has called and faxed info to paypal to no effect.
I contacted customer service through the 1-888 phone number on April 1 or 2 I believe.
I filed a buyer complaint ( don't have the number handy I think it ends with 2's and 3's - lotta help I know )
She said the investigation takes 30 days but if the other person calls ( said the customer service woman) I could have my funds back in 3 days.
Again I contacted the buyer who says they have done everything he has been asked to do and has asked paypal to refund my monies and anyone who has sent him money
A few days later, I called Customer Service again and they say they have no contact with the 'investigation' dept and I won't hear anything for 30 days.
She said if they get no response from the other person, it is supposed to resolve in my favor.
But, I may not even get my money back.
I haven't published my complaint publicly (OK now here it is ), or built an 'anti-paypal' website yet .
I am just in need of help.
As far as I know I and the other person have done all we need to do and yet, there is still no resolution.
Damon, I am not certain Paypal has my interests (their customer) in mind.
You know where that will leave your company when your investors get more wind of it all.
At any rate, I don't yet feel Paypal is awful, but I do think the customer service leaves a ton to be desired.
The website help is USELESS!
Thankfully I was resourceful enough to get a hold of the customer service phone number.
But that hasn't done much yet.
posted on April 18, 2002 10:13:29 AM new
Kevin, I don't think Damon is going to help you. He only responds for publicity reasons. He rarely actually does anything. I'd find other means to get your money.
Damon: And you wonder why people get emotional on this site? Ever think it's your behavior... or lack thereof??
posted on April 19, 2002 11:50:53 AM new
Hi kevinkevin,
I have been out of the office for the past week, so I haven't been able to get to all of the customer cases at this point (I have well over 400+ emails in my inbox).
The recipient, in this case, could authorize a refund out of their PayPal account IF they had money in the account to refund back to you. If not, then you would have to wait the 30 days to see if we were able to recover (not guaranteed).
I am still going through my emails, so I can't promise that I will get to this today.
I assumed you must have been on vacation or such as I hadn't seen nor heard any sign of you anywhere ( I was looking).
As for the other person,
I also sent all his emails to the complaint email address showing that he says he did these things that paypal has asked and is locked out of his acct.
posted on April 20, 2002 10:05:17 AM new
Damon... I don't understand your comment about the seller being able to refund the money from his account. When I filed my complaint, the seller was willing to immediately give me a refund. He contacted Paypal and they advised him NOT to give me a refund. Paypal told him that, since I filed a complaint and it was under investigation, there was a possibility of both him giving me a refund and Paypal giving me a refund. He checked twice, and got the same answer twice. Have the rules/suggested policies changed since January?
posted on April 22, 2002 07:20:01 PM new
OK Damon,
I am getting the same runaround from you.
I have forwarded and will include here (in the email I am sending you) the emails from the other party.
He clearly states he has contacted paypal by email, phone, fax and indicated that paypal is instructed to return the monies because he is locked out.
At this point if you cannot part from the party line, I know that there is a problem.
Please do the research. This is an easy case.
He is locked out, He has complied and asked for the monies to be returned, Paypal is ignoring me and him.
posted on April 22, 2002 09:07:05 PM new
Only 400 complaints in his email? Guess he had a slow day.Darn when it gets to 375 they won't need him anymore.
posted on April 23, 2002 02:18:53 PM new
This is damon's next reply:
Hi Kevin,
Thanks for those emails. I will see if the refund can be authorized, which
would only occur if the user had money in their account.
This is not as easy as it seems. We can't remove money from another person's
account unless:
a) they request it (and they have money in their account to refund to you)
b) any buyer complaint is resolved in your favor, which would also require
them having money in their account to refund you
The money you sent is now the property of the recipient.
posted on April 23, 2002 02:20:43 PM new
My response:
Damon,
I am understanding the options very well.
What no one is telling me is what the status is.
I have sent several emails indicating the other person has complied and authorized this.
So, since I have heard nothing I am assuming paypal is ignoring him or someone is lying.
Since you will not tell me what is going on , I am left in the dark.
Your company is the only one with all the answers and are the only ones not telling either party what the answers are.
You say if the buyer complaint is resolved in my favor...., yet no one there has appeared to make any attempt to actually resolve it, and I have no idea how paypal determines this is in my favor when you have so little info to go on.
I am guessing that you have many complaints, and my guess is that anything that requires more than a little work will go to the bottom of the pile.
The reason for the buyer complaint is to start the process of getting my monies back because the other party is locked out (another story completely) and can't ship the product without the money.
Just so you know, I am not going to let this pass and just say, 'well paypall has my money, oh well'.
I expect my money back as authorized by the other party.
The emails I sent you show that.
Your campany not following through is THE problem.
Please advice me on the next step to resolution and the current status of the investigation.
posted on April 23, 2002 02:24:40 PM new
Hi kevinkevin,
Please note the following:
a) the Buyer Complaint notification takes about 30 days from the date you originally filed. This has not elapsed.
I also advised you as to why a refund could not be issued, as well as the fact that we could only issue a refund if money were to be in the seller's account.
posted on April 23, 2002 02:31:45 PM new
OK
Damon,
I am trying not to get upset, but please explain to me how you don't have the info...
I understand a and b.
A) the other person HAS authorized the return of monies.
B) He is locked out of his acct. What more is there to resolve. Call me for all the info.
C) you are just waiting the 30 days. Damon, I will be happy to let you have my money for 30 days if I know that I am getting it back. Otherwise, Paypal is at fault for not releasing the funds when they are authorized to do so. THey are also at fault if they are not properly reviewing available evidence.
If it is as simple as 30 days, fine, but I assume you would need to verify that I have not received any product or that it has in fact never been shipped.
What it sounds like is that, although I filed a complaint, I am hearing that he has been unlocked from his acct and removed all funds and you know this and are waiting 30 days to tell me this.
???
Damon??
You continue to reference 'if there is money in his acct'.
If this is the case, then I will have to take action against the seller and I need to know that.
posted on April 23, 2002 03:41:47 PM new
Damon's Response:
Hi,
Let's make this simpler-
I advised that we could refund if the seller had money in their account. If
they didn't, then we wouldn't be able to refund. That should answer question
(a). That is why I told you the circumstances in which you would get a
refund. If these did not occur, then you wouldn't.
b) I can't discuss the person's account with you. I also can't discuss any
balance with you. That is why I gave you the items a and b. It should be
pretty clear to you why we can't initiate a refund.
c) Our User Agreement does specify that these claims take 30 days.
The money you sent to the party was their property when they claimed it. It
is no longer your money. If we are able to recover through our policies,
then you will be refunded. If not, then there will be no refund coming.
posted on April 24, 2002 11:22:59 AM new
I'd say Damon's saying the guy cleaned out his account. I'm assuming in the first few days after you started trying to contact paypal to let them know there was a problem, before they got around to restricting his account, he was able to clean it out.
The seller mentioned in his e-mail to you that they "have done everything he has been asked to do and has asked paypal to refund my monies and anyone who has sent him money". Is he indicating that he is not shipping items he sold to anyone? This could also be an indication that previous buyers had filed claims against him, so when your funds came in, he didn't acutally get them, because they were refunded to other complaining buyers (who's $$ he DID pocket). And consequently, the funds are not available to refund to you.
Kevin - Did you pay with your bank (checking) account or a credit card? It looks like the only other obvious avenue would be to file a chargeback (if you used a credit card). But be careful, because Paypal tries to make you wait 30+ days before they 'finish their investigation', but with some banks you only have 30 days to file a chargeback.
It also sounds like the seller has been responsive to your e-mails (albeit possibly dishonest) - have you tried sending a e-mail to the effect of; "I have verified that you have claimed the funds that I sent to you via paypal." Per Damon: "The money you sent to the party was their property WHEN they claimed it. "
Have you searched to see if the seller has any auctions going at this time? (Again, assuming that your transaction with him was an auction). Unfortunately, unless you paid with a credit card... I'd say this guy stuck ya. And who knows how many others!
You go (away) paypal! Gotta Love that 'Buyer Protection Policy'. What a joke!
posted on April 24, 2002 11:35:09 AM new
Yes, I replied with a new thread, 'Damon, explain this..' where I explain that I have contacted several other buyers and they have all been scammed. Many have contacted paypal and have recv'd a refund, even those who filed a buyer complaint after me.
So yes, I am guessing paypal did not secure the acct when the issues came up. He probably did claimthe funds. Though if he did not, monies not claimed/ received with in 30 days are to be returned, but the transaction doesn't say unclaimed.
I agree, although I had contact, I do not believe it was honest.
Paypal unfortunately did not allow me to use my credit card, it forced the acct from my checking, which I did not want.
That is another issue.
posted on April 24, 2002 11:38:13 AM new
just a side note, I calculated the amount of money i could find that he scammed to be close to $20,000 through paypal.
posted on April 24, 2002 01:42:12 PM new
Wow, $20,000? Not bad for a couple days work! Especially when you know that there really is no buyer protection, so as a seller using paypal to run his scam, he's basically off scott free!
I'm sure the funds you sent went to pay back other buyers... so he may have never had a chance to claim them, but PayPal did. You can always hope he keeps the scam up a little while longer, and maybe you'll get refunded when the next sucker pays him via paypal! LMAO!! How's this guys rating, anyway? Are you able to share his 'ebay name'?
The automatic 'defaulting to your checking account' for all payments is a common source of contention among users... but since enough people fall into it, and the end result is that it insulates paypal because they have no chargeback liability - and as a buyer, they don't owe you anything if the seller already ran off with the $$ - they refuse to modify their system and/or their policies (JUST to satisfy their customers!). It's just another example of this company that doesn't deserve to have even 1 customer - when they show such blatant disrespect for EVERY customer!
Just remember Paypal: WCA,GA (What Comes Around, Goes Around)
posted on April 24, 2002 08:09:38 PM newthe end result is that it insulates paypal because they have no chargeback liability
I believe if you chek with your bank, you will find you can dispute an ACH charge to your bank account, just like a credit card charge. The difference is in the fees.
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