posted on September 23, 2001 07:36:14 PM
Just noticed this under the "SELL" tab (its optional so hold the flamethrowers):
Bidder Activation Messenger
PayPal's Bidder Activation Messenger lets you automatically send a customized email
to each of your bidders on the last day of your auction reminding them to return to
your auction and bid again.
How does it work?
All you need to do is enter your eBay User ID and password in the form provided.
As your auctions enter their last day, each of your bidders will be sent an email
reminding them that the auction is about to close, and inviting them to visit your
listing and bid again.
How will this help me?
Bidders often lose track of listings on which they have bid, and forget when each
auction will end. Reminding your bidders that time is running out will bring them
back to your listing, creating more bids that will drive the closing price higher. More
bids means more money.
Do I have any control over the email?
Yes. When you register for Bidder Activation Messenger, you will see a copy of the
email that PayPal sends out. In the form at the bottom, you can customize the
email's text. After registration, you may update the email at any time by going to
the "Profile" subtab of the "My Account" tab and selecting the "Auctions" link from
the left-hand menu. Follow the on-screen instructions to edit your email.
At what auction sites can I use Bidder Activation Messenger?
Bidder Activation Messenger is currently available for eBay auctions.
posted on September 23, 2001 08:04:47 PM
While it is a clever way to advertise Paypal to all your bidders (even the non-winners) it probably doesn't significantly increase the chance that they will use PayPal at this point unless they have never heard of it before.
I do agree with their assertion that people bid on items and then don't know how to get back to them. I don't think eBay does a very good job at educating new users on how to navigate their eBay account or all its features.
Some of you may remember the fiasco I was involved in awhile back where a bidder on one of my auctions turned me in for spam when I sent them a "Thank you for your bid notice" along with a link to my auctions at another auction site I'm not bothering with right now.
And to make the long story short, it was made very clear to me by eBay via email that sellers are not allowed to send email to bidders before the auction closes at all for any reason.
So if you take "advantage" of this new feature and one of your bidders gets ticked off about it, expect to hear from eBay.
Directly from the the site:
Spam: General Guidelines
"Spam" is unsolicited, commercial email. Unsolicited means that the email is sent without the recipient's permission. Commercial means that the email is related to selling a product, service, or opportunity.
For example, if a user sends an email to you, describing a product or item they are selling (whether it is on eBay or not), it is considered commercial email. If this is sent without permission, it is unsolicited and therefore considered spam.
Examples of what are not allowed:
An email to active bidders in an open auction and offer them the same or similar items.
I'm resonably certain that PayPal's lawyers probably looked at this in light of eBay's TOS and didn't think it was a violation. I also think that eBay is reluctant to outright ban Paypal's marketing ploys due to the regulatory scrutiny that might bring especially considering the heavyhanded way they push Billpoint.
Also I think you just got a nutty bidder, I don't think there is anything wrong with contacting a bidder with info related to an auction they bid on. I have emailed bidders to update thenm on additions to the item description and offer to end auctions early etc with no problems whatsoever. The line in the email mentioning PayPal only reiterates your payment preference and is pretty tame by Billpoint standards. Presumably if you didn't prefer PayPal you wouldn't be using the service.
kolonel22
Over a month? I like how feature rich PayPal is, but I wish they would give us a heads up when they roll out a new one. I get their announcements and totally missed this.
posted on September 24, 2001 04:02:27 AM
Maybe they should call it seller deacvtivation AKA NARU? Nothing could be tackier or unwelcome. I'd be very likely to forward such an email to SafeHarbor.
posted on September 24, 2001 05:07:06 AM
just a note to those who haven't seen before...though ebay tries to twist the definition of spam to whatever suits it (ie. so ebay can send its OWN spam), unsolicited commercial email is NOT true...close, but not exact.
something can be non-commercial, and be spam. unsolicited BULK email is spam. and it's not conTent, but conSent. (ie. opt-in = good, opt-out = SPAM.) if those last 2 sentences were followed by all, nearly all spam would disappear.
the people who coined the term spam, and helped define it years ago on the newsgroup news.admin.net-abuse.email kept fighting misnomers, etc.
It really doesn't matter how the newsgroups define spam, it matters how ebay defines spam.
BJGrolle already found out that if a customer complains about receiving an unsolicited email from a seller (no matter how well meaning the seller's intent was), ebay can and will define it as spam.
I'm resonably certain that PayPal's lawyers probably looked at this in light of eBay's TOS and didn't think it was a violation
Thanks, I needed a really good laugh this morning!
posted on September 24, 2001 05:38:05 AM
And to add to what Eventer said, I recall that about half of those who responded would not have considered my email to have been offensive or uncalled-for, while about half thought it was wrong and a small minority of those would also have reported me to SafeHarbor.
And it is really eBay's opinion that counts in the end if you want to keep selling there.
I guarantee that you will have just one bidder eventually that will be offended by such an email and you'll get reported. Might not happen right away, maybe a few months down the road, like with me, but it will happen.
And besides, despite what I had done before, even I would not presume to "remind" a bidder to return to the auction to bid again. Why would they under the following circumstances:
1. They are the only bidder on the auction anyway.
2. They've already bid as much as they want to pay and they're willing to let the item go to someone else if it exceeds their budget.
According to eBay (in their emails to me) any email communications that a bidder can opt-out of, cannot be sent by the seller! Plain and simple.
posted on September 24, 2001 07:45:28 AM
While I'm not one to usually tilt at the eBay windmill, it's pretty funny to me how mother eBay has some of you so cowed that you actually think that you are not allowed to communicate with bidders on your auctions. That may work on individual sellers communications, but in the case of this PayPal feature eBay will be forced into the position of banning it outright if they are going to take action against sellers for using it. Considering that they plug Billpoint in just about every email to bidders and sellers, I think they are smart enough not to bring even more regulatory scrutiny on themselves by doing this.
What's more likely is that they will make one of their patented, thinly veiled slams against PayPal on their announcement board advising people about the evils of letting a 3rd party service have your password.
Relax kids, eBay doesn't operate in a vacuum or with absolute impunity, they can be spanked too. Just ask Microsoft.
I usually like to keep my head down when dealing with the 'Bay, but I have no fear of using this feature. Most of my customers are not reactionary nutz, and if they turn out to be I will deal with them and eBay if the situaton should arise. eBay is "just a venue" after all and I refuse to sell in fear of them. If eBay could uproot PayPal from their little garden they would, but so far it seems that the only people they have been successful against in court have been those who lift content from the site.
Last time I checked eBay wasn't exactly the same as Half.com, sellers can communicate with bidders and buyers.
[ edited by bemused on Sep 24, 2001 07:47 AM ]
[ edited by bemused on Sep 24, 2001 07:56 AM ]
posted on September 24, 2001 08:02:24 AM
Well, I'd already been warned by eBay and was told that it is not permissible to contact bidders while the auction is still open. And that is the real issue I was referring to, not whether these emails constitute advertising for PayPal (which is a different issue entirely).
I will abide by that rule. If others choose to take their chances, that's their business. I just wanted to warn others of what could happen with this, that's all.
posted on September 24, 2001 08:06:27 AM
Someone mentioned that eBay might NARU a seller for using this feature which seems pretty unlikely under these circumstances. That would be pretty draconian even by eBay standards, considering that this is a PayPal feature its more likely that you would receive a warning. After all eBay couldn't assume that every seller has the benefit of the "wisdom" imparted by all the anti-Paypal partisans represented so well on these boards.
posted on September 24, 2001 08:15:18 AM
sulyn1950
They don't need the bidders email address they contact them the same way you would by going through the eBay mail system using your password (if you supply it).
HammerTap makes a desktop program that pretty much does the same thing making it easier to email another user without going through the forms.
BJGrolle
My point is that you are an individual seller which eBay is free to intimidate. In the case of this Paypal feature they have to take the postion of banning it and risk being accused of anti-competiveness by the only people eBay is afraid of lawmakers. It will be interesting to see what happens, but they have passed up chances to hamper PayPal before.
posted on September 24, 2001 08:16:18 AM
BJGrolle:
Thanks for trying to remind us of your real-world ebay experience.
If you could get beaten over the head by Safeharbor for trying to be nice and polite, imagine what this unsolicited Paypal slap-on-the-back will provoke.
Too bad the grand generalizers and speculators don't read others' posts first...
posted on September 24, 2001 08:29:43 AM
No problem. I just want people to go into this with their eyes open, that's all.
It's a simple matter to contact bidders before the auction closes. If you're the seller, you have access to all the current bidders email addresses even while the auction is still open.
posted on September 24, 2001 08:34:21 AM
I did not know that....where do you find them? Hate showing my dumbness, but if I don't ask I won't learn, right???
Edited to add:-Never mind, I found out how. I had never clicked on that link on the bid history page that said bidders emails before....does that tell you how I feel about clicking on unknown links??????
You may disregard my stupidity now and I would greatly appreciate your just forgetting I displayed it.
[ edited by sulyn1950 on Sep 24, 2001 08:40 AM ]
posted on September 24, 2001 08:39:10 AM
These reminders, while I will probably not use them, are not exactly spam. The bidder has entered into a business relationship with the seller. If I did use them, I might state in my auction that "bidders may receive an end-of-auction reminder from me". Personally, I have been beaten up pretty bad by the mrs., when she failed to tell me her real max and found out later I had let the auction end. LOL
posted on September 24, 2001 08:42:47 AM
Thanks BJ!!! Sulyn
Just wanted to add: Last year we were having an discussion on "Fee Avoidance" I emailed a question to eBay and so did another poster.
We cut and pasted our responses when we got them and they were totally different. I was told it would be OK the other poster was told it would be "Fee Avoidance".
Apparently it depends on who is on duty at the time that email concerning you and your auctions comes in.....are you by nature "lucky"???? If so, no problem!
[ edited by sulyn1950 on Sep 24, 2001 08:53 AM ]
