posted on May 26, 2002 12:06:39 PM new
It would be good to get along and the best way would be to call her by her name . That said and done realize that we all have had problems with this company. This forum is a place to inform as well as vent. To really accomplish anything we have to ban together in a common cause. The cause should be to put a stop to innocent people losing their hard earned money while a bunch of arrogant kids are running all over the world spending it.
If people were to realize that paypal spent close to a half a million dollars just to get 18k out of me and feather their hat with a victory, Then they would realize why they have doubled their fees since I was doing business with them. So question is who pays to make sure that when paypal says their infallible --Not them but the customers. I spent my money defending myself did they?
Bottom line is let's stay together. To divide and conquer is their goal.
[ edited by club1man on May 28, 2002 10:20 AM ]
posted on May 28, 2002 09:42:41 AM new
Well said... Thank you Stoney! Hey, I was out in your 'neck of the woods' about a week ago (Frisco, TX). Interesting weather you've got going! LOL.
posted on May 28, 2002 11:42:38 AM new
Gee tom good to see you. By the way after calling me a crook on another thread you said you were putting me back on ignore. What happened. I'm a man of MY word-HUUUM
posted on May 28, 2002 12:52:22 PM new
Yea your going back on ignore I just couldn't resist another parting word. I am getting ready for vacation and I guess I am feeling a little frisky these last couple of days. i don't know you personaly so perhaps "crook" was a little harsh. ( I still stand by "crock"By looking at your case from a neutral point of few it is easy to see why you were flagged and restricted and in the end did yourself in with your own eggo or arrogance. I understand you stating you case but as all the others I think you are doing nothing but damaging yourself with this endless self rightous crusade. With just a few post people would have read it and perhaps stuck with you but now you are doing yourself no favors and the more you ramble the less credable you become. (yes I need a spell check also). Anyway no harsh feeling but I took all I could without responding. Best of luck in all your futur e-gold, pyramid, night club, car sales, Phone service sales, strip bars, ice cream truck vending, or whatever you must do to scrap by now that the Evil empire has forsaken you.
posted on May 28, 2002 01:25:51 PM new
darn the only thing you could be is a man of the cloth. To you everyone else is a crook. Have you bought any porn pic. with your paypal account lately.
Got this from the California sec. of state
Corporation
HEWLETT-PACKARD CREDIT CORPORATION
Number: C2129576 Date Filed: 1/5/1999 Status: active
Jurisdiction: DELAWARE
Mailing Address
3000 HANOVER ST
PALO ALTO, CA 94304
Agent for Service of Process
CORPORATION SERVICE COMPANY WHICH WILL DO BUSINESS IN CALIFORNIA AS CSC - LAWYERS INCORPORATING SERVICE
2730 GATEWAY OAKS DR., SUITE 100
SACRAMENTO, CA 95833
Corporation
PAYPAL ASSET MANAGEMENT, INC.
Number: C2174470 Date Filed: 8/27/1999 Status: active
Jurisdiction: DELAWARE
Mailing Address
1840 EMBARCADERO RD
PALO ALTO, CA 94303
Agent for Service of Process
MARK SULLIVAN
1840 EMBARCADERO RD
PALO ALTO, CA 94303
Corporation
PAYPAL, INC.
Number: C2171783 Date Filed: 7/30/1999 Status: active
Jurisdiction: DELAWARE
Mailing Address
1840 EMBARCADERO ROAD
PALO ALTO, CA 94303
Agent for Service of Process
CORPORATION SERVICE COMPANY WHICH WILL DO BUSINESS IN CALIFORNIA AS CSC - LAWYERS INCORPORATING SERVICE
2730 GATEWAY OAKS DR., SUITE 100
SACRAMENTO, CA 95833
posted on May 28, 2002 01:35:35 PM new
No But I have arrested a few night club owners for Contributing to minors , Soliciting minors and even Statitory rape so by using your previously posted theories that rates you right up there with the rest of the pedophiles out there. after all evryone one in paypal is in the same crooked boat and out to get you so I can only assume you feel all of the night club owners are the same to. By the way as to your other post Max and peter are meeting me in belize next week with your boat so that is why they are unable to respond right now as they are preparing for vacation also. Maybe we can check on a few of those e-gold accounts while in belize and honduras for you if you like.
posted on May 28, 2002 01:53:36 PM new
sorry to say I can't believe your claim to arrests. Law enforcement officers have to have a degree of intelligance. From your posts I estimate that Buffert T Justice's son is a genius in comparison to you. E-gold has holdings in Nevis not Belize. Just the facts Jack OH I mean tom. Talk about credible.
[ edited by club1man on May 28, 2002 01:55 PM ]
posted on May 28, 2002 04:30:50 PM new
When you sell on eBay™, be sure that PayPal is the online payment service that you offer to your buyers. Other services, such as Billpoint™ (a.k.a. eBay Payments), may charge you more and even limit your ability to control your auctions.
PayPal Costs Less and You Control Your Money
While Billpoint forces you to wait several days for your payments to be transferred to a bank account, PayPal gives you instant control over your money. With PayPal, you have many ways to use your money:
Make purchases everywhere MasterCard is accepted or withdraw cash from an ATM with PayPal's ATM/Debit Card
Use your PayPal balance to make purchases from other auction sellers or from websites in PayPal Shops
Pay your expenses with PayPal's free BillPay service or choose to transfer your balance to the bank account of your choice
And as a PayPal Preferred member you can earn 1.5% cashback on your ATM/Debit Card purchases -- that's like cutting your payment fees in half. Look at how much this saves you in payment fees compared to Billpoint.
But don't just take our word for it -- calculate for yourself just how much money you can save with PayPal.
Billpoint Costs More and You Lose Control
Using PayPal doesn't just put you in control of your money and lower your costs -- it also gives you more control over your auctions. In the past, some sellers have reported Billpoint being turned on in their auctions without their knowledge. Even when that doesn't happen, using Billpoint means you have decreased control over your auction listings:
Mandatory logos are inserted into the bottom of listing descriptions without any preference to turn them off
Sellers have an undisclosed monthly volume limit placed on their accounts, and they are not notified of the limit until they're approaching it
There's no refund capability for payments when buyers make mistakes
Sellers have a 24-hour waiting period after receiving Billpoint payments before they know if they can ship an item and qualify for seller protection
Error messages are inserted into listings that exceed Billpoint's transaction limits, which can be as low as $200 (e.g. "eBay Payments is no longer available. The item price has exceeded the eBay Payments transaction limit for this listing."
Plus, if you have Billpoint turned on in your auctions, Billpoint alters your end of auction emails and Checkout flow to imply to your buyers that you prefer Billpoint payments, even if you really prefer some other payment method.
PayPal believes in empowering our sellers, not limiting their control over the auction process. Our automated tools like Automatic Logo Insertion (ALI) are completely opt-in and you can turn them on or off at any time. PayPal's Winning Bidder Notification (WBN) is customizable so your buyers will receive the instructions that you want to give them. PayPal lets you refund payments for up to 14 days after they were sent. And we don't play the waiting game with seller protection.
It's Your Choice!
We value you as a customer, and we will continue to provide you with valuable opt-in tools that give you greater control over your auctions. So, when it comes to your auction payments, be sure to ask your buyers to send money to you through PayPal.
And thanks for making PayPal the world's #1 online payment service!
posted on May 28, 2002 05:43:22 PM new
tomyou wrote: ..."We value you as a customer, and we will continue to provide you with valuable opt-in tools that give you greater control over your auctions. So, when it comes to your auction payments, be sure to ask your buyers to send money to you through PayPal. And thanks for making PayPal the world's #1 online payment service!"
Literal interpretation (In PayPal Terms): "We don't give a crap if you live or die, as long as you keep your PayPal account open! And we will continue to restrict your account for any reason we choose, at any time we choose, for as long as we choose. So when it comes to your auction payments, be sure to ask your buyers to send PayPal the money - because that's as far as it's going anyway.
Thanks for making us rich! And remember, before you (try to) contact the PayPal Customer Service Department, the question is not "Have you read our terms of service?", It's "Have you read our terms of service TODAY?"
posted on May 28, 2002 05:49:54 PM new
WOW maybe he peter and max's illigitimate son. Have a good vacation. Does the song "their comming to take me away " ring a bell LMAO
[ edited by club1man on May 28, 2002 05:52 PM ]
[ edited by club1man on May 28, 2002 05:55 PM ]
posted on May 28, 2002 09:46:09 PM new
"While Billpoint forces you to wait several days for your payments to be transferred to a bank account, PayPal gives you instant control over your money. With PayPal, you have many ways to use your money:
Make purchases everywhere MasterCard is accepted or withdraw cash from an ATM with PayPal's ATM/Debit Card" etc. etc. etc.
And if PayPal decides to restrict your account, you will have no control whatsoever over your money.
You will be forced to fax in many documents over and over again, because we will keep denying receiving your documents, whether or not you have proof that you sent them in. You will be forced to wait for possibly months while we investigate your account, and you are deprived of use of your money and do not collect interest for this time period.
And we will even do you the favor of continuing to accept money into your account, which is more money you will have no control over, that you can't even refund to the buyer in a timely fashion if at all, even though we know you might eventually have to stop shipping due to our restriction of your money and rack up non-shipment of goods complaints. And if you want to complain and somehow figure out our phone number, you will be greeted by one of our reps who can't help you and can't tell you what the problem is with your account or how to fix it. It's Your Choice! We hope you will remain our customer, since our service is obviously superior to any other payment service around.
[ edited by andrew123s on May 28, 2002 10:00 PM ]
posted on May 28, 2002 10:33:40 PM new
ltlcrafty and andrew your to mucken fuch. I think he's probabily not answering because he's out arresting some used car salesman that sold him a wreck for a $1.99.
Personally I think he's got hoof and mouth disease. Comes from sticking foot in mouth too mucken fuch.
sure glad they don't have an auto spell check.
[ edited by club1man on May 28, 2002 10:40 PM ]
posted on May 29, 2002 09:37:40 AM new
thchaser200-
I believe 'tomyou's was a cut-n-paste. Andrew123s and I were just ad-libbing (putting it in real life terms).
Club1man-
I think Tomyou is an overly zealous rent-a-cop (security guard). He's got the attitude for it.
From the e-mail - I can't believe they have the audacity to say '...Billpoint Costs More and You Lose Control. Using PayPal doesn't just put you in control of your money and lower your costs -- it also gives you more control over your auctions. In the past, some sellers have reported Billpoint being turned on in their auctions without their knowledge. Even when that doesn't happen, using Billpoint means you have decreased control over your auction listings:
Mandatory logos are inserted into the bottom of listing descriptions without any preference to turn them off..."
First of all, as much as PayPal would like to make us think that account restrictions are "quite rare" - they're not. How can you have control over your money when it's been restriced by PayPal? Not to mention, I've seen a ton of people on this board who are frantically looking for help because PayPal logo's keep popping up in their auctions, and they can't find a way to make them stop! While they give you what you perceive is the 'option' to turn them off in your account, on numerous occasions, it doesn't do any good, they still come up.
I wonder if the people that wrote the e-mail really belive that crock of crap!
posted on May 29, 2002 10:11:49 AM new
i used billpoint and if you are a heavy user the fees are reduced and the money hits my account in ONE business day.....the only gripe i would have with billpoint is the 0.5% fee to deposit funds into my bank account.....however since i switched to them from paypal i had ZERO problems at all.
posted on May 29, 2002 10:21:05 AM new
I can see why PayPal's actions might not be allowed. I don't think merchant is not allowed to have the user waive chargeback rights (e.g., in user agreement, "You waive the right to charge back any charge from our company." )
PayPal is the merchant of the record in this case. In their TOU, they say that using PayPal does not infringe upon your protection using a credit card from your credit card company. However, this doesn't seem to be totally true, as you don't retain the right to file a chargeback if an issue comes up after 30 days since the transaction (PayPal will restrict your account and ask for their money back). You would retain that right with a conventional credit card transaction, but you don't using your credit card with PayPal. I don't think that is allowed, and it definately contradicts PayPal's own TOU. But I guess PayPal doesn't care and there's little a customer can do to stop them.
[ edited by andrew123s on May 29, 2002 10:23 AM ]
It sounds to me like the fee is well worth the peace-of-mind - knowing that the company you use to get paid for your auctions is not going to pull a fast one on you and 'lock-up' your money for an unknown period of time, for whatever reason they feel like. (Or at least not being AS worried about it, like you'd have to be with PayPal).
I certainly don't envy anyone that makes their living, and depends on the income they generate selling on-line - and uses paypal to receive that income. It would be a living nightmare! And unfortunately, it sounds like it's only getting worse! (If that's possible).
posted on May 29, 2002 12:30:22 PM new
I dont mind paying the 0.5% i think the MAIN difference between billpoint and paypal is billpoint dump the money into your account none of this people saving up thousands for it to be locked up......
posted on May 29, 2002 12:39:11 PM newmrfoxy76the only gripe i would have with billpoint is the 0.5% fee to deposit funds into my bank
Here's one gripe with BillPoint. Lets say you are selling some easily fenced electronic gear, cell phone, games, digital cameras, etc.. If the buyer doesn't include a shipping address that matches the billing address you have two choices, take the risk, or refund the payment. With either choice you pay the fees. On a $450 item that's $10.08 if you have the merchant account, or $12.32 with the standard account. For BillPoint to make $10.08 or $12.32 on a transaction you don't want is really a neat trick. BillPoint doesn't have any way of requiring the buyer include a billing address or require that the buyer even be in the US.
Imagine having a teenage boy walk into your store and show you a credit card with the name "Jane" on it. When you refuse to accept the credit card for the purchase of a Sony Playstation how would you feel about still paying the fees on the transaction? That is how BillPoint's system is operating.
posted on May 29, 2002 03:22:49 PM new
And thus, one of the inherent differences between shopping at a 'brick & mortar' store and shopping on-line.
But the "Really Neat Trick" award still goes to PayPal, for restricting hundreds of thousands of their customers dollars every day, taking their 30 - ?? days to "investigate"... you think those funds are just sitting out there in the customers accounts doing nothing? NO, they're being invested TO THE BENEFIT OF PAYPAL.
Meanwhile, their customers try (in vain) to get some kind of response from them, only to be told (if and when they finally DO get to talk to someone) that "Per the User Agreement, we have 30 days to investigate this matter".
At least with Billpoint, you know how much they're going to take, and when. One very important thing that PayPal apparently forgot when they put together their business plan... You don't screw around with people's money!
posted on May 29, 2002 03:24:59 PM new
this might be interesting reading on how Paypal and other companies take your rights away.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nopal-paypal/files/Abitrationreportfinal.doc
posted on May 29, 2002 03:58:41 PM newltlcrafty1But the "Really Neat Trick" award still goes to PayPal, for restricting hundreds of thousands of their customers dollars every day
Care you share your source on those numbers? Is this just another wild statement picking numbers out of thin air?
posted on May 29, 2002 04:49:19 PM new
In addition many users post here and try to get a problem resolved with PayPal and Damon, and some of these problems involve restricted accounts with tens of thousands of dollars. If you add all those up, you will probably come close to 100,000 dollars (at one time), and most users who have a problem probably don't post on these boards, so it might very well be much more.
posted on May 29, 2002 05:06:11 PM new
Hi ltlcrafty1,
While I realize the attention that account restrictions cause, they are actually quite rare. They are also done for a reason (please review the User Agreement, as it does cover the reasons why an account can be restricted).
Account restrictions can also be resolved. As it relates to the float issue, I just checked with our policy team.
"We don't make any money from the float, since we now keep our customer funds in non-interest-bearing accounts that qualify for FDIC pass-through insurance "
Even if there were an issue of float, it would cost us far more just to work an account restriction.
posted on May 29, 2002 05:42:48 PM new
Mr.PayPal: I'm not sure why you say restrictions are rare when you have an automatic restrict for any customer doing a chargeback even though it is the customer's legal right!! I read your public files and it seems like you keep having issues with Visa's rules. Seems to me sending emails to customers and coercing them to forfeit their chargeback rights is another rule-breaker???
[ edited by Flaoisland on May 29, 2002 06:04 PM ]
posted on May 29, 2002 05:56:39 PM new
Damon Show me where the FDIC regulations say that it must be in a non-interest account. And don't quote me from paypals terms of the day.
posted on May 29, 2002 06:06:55 PM new
Re: "We don't make any money from the float, since we NOW keep our customer funds in non-interest-bearing accounts that qualify for FDIC pass-through insurance"
Yes, and President Clinton "did not have sex with that woman".
RE: "Even if there were an issue of float, it would cost us far more just to work an account restriction."
See, the funny thing there is, you don't. I mean YOU might personally, but as a company, it can't cost too much to ignore your customers (in the short term). (Just read some of the threads again, message after message is about how they can't get anyone at paypal to even acknowledge that they exist!). How expensive can that be?
Regardless of what your "User Agreement" says - and regarless of whatever useless point uaru is trying to make (besides proving that they're an ASS again) - and uaru - to answer your question in quite the same way that you answered someone in another thread - No. Next question.
You're talking out your rear by saying I'm making "just another wild statement picking numbers out of thin air?" - You figure it out for yourself, or have Damon tell you. I've done my homework you 'little twit'.
By looking at your case from a neutral point of few it is easy to see why you were flagged and restricted and in the end did yourself in with your own eggo or arrogance. I understand you stating you case but as all the others I think you are doing nothing but damaging yourself with this endless self rightous crusade. With just a few post people would have read it and perhaps stuck with you but now you are doing yourself no favors and the more you ramble the less credable you become. (yes I need a spell check also). Anyway no harsh feeling but I took all I could without responding. Best of luck in all your futur e-gold, pyramid, night club, car sales, Phone service sales, strip bars, ice cream truck vending, or whatever you must do to scrap by now that the Evil empire has forsaken you.