posted on May 15, 2002 09:32:25 PM new
I read the long list of reasons an account can be put on restriction. I don't see the reason why my account was put on restriction. I filed a complaint, only to have the seller be told by Paypal NOT to give a refund. I then issued a stop payment on the EFT. I had sufficient funds, it had the correct routing and bank account information. I simply exercised my right. So why was my account put on restriction??
Here's another one hope you can give me an answer.
The owner of a restricted account cannot gain access to the account which they cannot reverse or refund their customer on their own. But can they instruct or authorize PP to carryout such activities as fund reversal? Or give specific instructions to PP if chargeback on certain transaction show up during the restriction, release the fund in a speedier fashion (of course providing that there is sufficient funds in the account)
Thanks.
Breaking news, need answer Damon,
Got a reply from PP regarding a request for fund reversal. This buyer made payment through PP using his checking account, He filed complaint with PP and PP found seller at fault. But PP said they managed to recover a part of the claim, which came out $600 something short of the total amount involved, but that's the maximum that they can get. And this amount is already credited back to the buyer's bank account.
What does this mean? There's not sufficient funds in the seller's account to cover the whole amount? Why couldn't PP just reverse the full amount if they find the seller is at fault?
This should be a very good example in "what if there not enough funds in the account, now what?" Or is there some other explaination why the full amount is not rewarded? Like a chargeback penalty or chargeback process fee or something of that nature?
I will ask the buyer if i can disclose the case number for Damon to take a good look at it.
Thanks
[ edited by cobbe on May 16, 2002 03:39 PM ]
posted on May 17, 2002 09:29:30 PM new
With a question like that he's not in the office til monday. Which Monday I can't tell you that. What ever way it comes out Payponzi won't be responsible and they will make money on it.
posted on May 18, 2002 09:56:07 PM new
Cobbe, from what I understand unless it is a credit card chargeback PayPal will only recover what is in the seller's account if the seller is found at fault. Otherwise, if they reversed the entire transaction, the seller would owe PayPal money and PayPal might not see it again. (It says in the user agreement that fund recovery is not garunteed). I disagree with the policy, I think they should be more aggressive trying to recover funds from the seller than to stop as soon as the account reached zero on the day PayPal reversed the funds. But since PayPal doesn't have to they won't.
[ edited by andrew123s on May 18, 2002 09:56 PM ]
posted on May 18, 2002 11:51:46 PM new
There is the point of the whole thing that we are discussing here. If a buyer does a chargeback, paypal has no choice, but to give the whole transaction amount back to the buyer. Since now the transaction is taken out of thier control. The credit card company forces a complete refund and now PayPal has to get the money back from the seller.
If the seller does not give the money back, does PayPal try to get it back from the buyer or what do they do.
posted on May 18, 2002 11:53:05 PM new
If the complaint is filed in 30 days and the seller is at fault, then they will try to recover money out of the sellers account if they can. A chargeback is different.
posted on May 20, 2002 01:07:33 AM new
Thanks andrew123s,
So in this case, it's a very good indication that the seller's account is empty already so that's why PP didn't reverse the full amount back to the buyer's account. And let's say if another buyer who paid by CC now initial a chargeback through his CC, what will happen? Since there's no more funding in the seller's account to cover the chargeback, will PP just deny the chargeback or else?
Thanks.
posted on May 20, 2002 03:48:14 AM new
With a CC chargeback, PayPal cannot "deny" the chargeback. They are forced to pay the money back. Therefore, that is why they must go after the seller further than just his PayPal balance, because PayPal already lost the money due to the chargeback and they consider it debt owed to PayPal. With a buyer complaint, PayPal isn't forced to do anything, as it is PayPal's own "service", so if there isn't enough money left in the seller's account there is nothing to force them to reverse the entire transaction and start trying to collect from the seller, so they won't.
posted on May 20, 2002 11:11:56 AM new
If you want to see how paypal changes it's Tos go here http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://paypal.com
Write to the Nebraska Attorney General. I received a letter from them today saying they forwarded a copy of my complaint to paypal and requested an answer in writing. Maybe with enough complaints they'll help clean this garbage up.
Office of the Attorney General
2115 State Capitol Building
Lincoln,NE 68509
Att: Don Stenberg
[ edited by club1man on May 20, 2002 10:41 PM ]
posted on May 23, 2002 03:08:04 AM new
I am agreeing about the float. When it comes to restricting accounts, I seem to be noticing a pattern here in that the accounts that get restricted are either international or high volume sellers.
Is to avoid the government to look into this. Part of my research on the other other thread I started is that in for an Attorney General or the FTC to get involved, a consumer has to be effected. However, when paypal restricts an account of a seller, this is a business to business transaction and is under the jurstiction of the AG or FTC
Here's another one hope you can give me an answer.
The owner of a restricted account cannot gain access to the account which they cannot reverse or refund their customer on their own. But can they instruct or authorize PP to carryout such activities as fund reversal? Or give specific instructions to PP if chargeback on certain transaction show up during the restriction, release the fund in a speedier fashion (of course providing that there is sufficient funds in the account)
(Yes, a person with a restricted PayPal account can advise us to refund a particular party. This can only happen if the seller's account has money in it...remember, the seller might have already taken the money out of their account).
Thanks.
Breaking news, need answer Damon,
Got a reply from PP regarding a request for fund reversal. This buyer made payment through PP using his checking account, He filed complaint with PP and PP found seller at fault. But PP said they managed to recover a part of the claim, which came out $600 something short of the total amount involved, but that's the maximum that they can get. And this amount is already credited back to the buyer's bank account.
(The buyer, per our User Agreement, was entitled to whatever we were able to recover. In this case, we were not able to recover the whole amount and they were given back what we could. The recovery can only happen against the PayPal account.)
posted on May 23, 2002 11:31:57 PM new
Thanks Damon,
Lucky that the seller's a nice guy, he sent a check to the buyer in the amount that came up short.
Now it leads to other questions.
In this case, now another buyer request a fund reversal through PP they won't get anything back, because the seller's account zero out already. But if the buyer initiated the reversal through their bank, which also mean that the buyer didn't file complaint within 30 days, and now his bank comes in and try to settle the dispute, what will happen?
To my understanding, if it's a chargeback by a CC, it doesn't matter if there's funds in the seller's account, right? Does it mean that PP had to swallow the chargeback?
Or will PP try to challenge the CC and refuse the chargeback?
*************DISCLAIMER*****************
THE FOLLOWING IS A 100% HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION.
*******************************************
Could this happen:-
Let's say a seller's account genarated a total of $10,000, 20% of the funds came in through bank account transfer, the other 80% through CC. Now 90% of the fund in this account were withdrawed before the restriction came down. After all the fund reversal and CC ahargeback are settled, and say all buyers go forth and close the deal by makeing alternate payment, it would mean that the seller just make an extra 80% (CC chargeback swallowed by PP) profit.
That is if PP had no other means (aggressive) to go after a seller to retreive the money for the chargebacks.
Thanks
[ edited by cobbe on May 24, 2002 12:01 AM ]
[ edited by cobbe on May 24, 2002 12:06 AM ]
If it is a chargeback, PayPal will receive the chargeback and process the chargeback to the seller. The recipient (seller) of a credit card payment is liable for any chargebacks.
posted on May 25, 2002 01:28:05 PM new
In the matter of research here's some definations. Judge for your self.
Fiduciary
Normally, the term is synonymous to a trustee, which is the classic form of a fiduciary relationship. A fiduciary has rights and powers which would normally belong to another person. The fiduciary holds those rights which he or she must exercise to the benefit of the beneficiary. A fiduciary must not allow any conflict of interest to infect their duties towards the beneficiary and must exercise a high standard of care in protecting or promoting the interests of the beneficiary. Fiduciary responsibilities exist for persons other than trustees such as between solicitor and client and principal and agent
Escrow
When the performance of something is outstanding and a third party holds onto money or a written document (such as shares or a deed) until a certain condition is met between the two contracting parties.
Trust
Property given by a person called the donor or settlor, to a trustee, for the benefit of another person (the beneficiary or donee). The trustee manages and administers the property, actual ownership is shared between the trustee and the beneficiary and all the profits go to the beneficiary. The word "fiduciary" can be used to describe the responsibilities of the trustee towards the beneficiary. A will is a form of trust but trusts can be formed during the lifetime of the settlor in which case it is called an inter vivos or living trust.
Trustee
The person who holds property rights for the benefit of another through the l
egal mechanism of the trust. A trustee usually has full management and administration rights over the property but these rights must always be exercised to the full advantage of the beneficiary. All profits from the property go to the beneficiary although the trustee is entitled to reimbursement for administrative costs. There is no legal impediment for a trustee to also be a beneficiary of the same property.
Trustee de son tort
A trustee "of his own wrong"; a person who is not a regularly appointed trustee but because of his or her intermeddling with the trust and the exercise of some control over the trust property, can be held by a court as "constructive" trustee which entails liability for losses to the trust.
posted on June 1, 2002 01:08:21 PM new
Is this BULLS##T or just another LIE
PayPal says xxxxxxs case was an anomaly, caused partly by a now-complete move from paper to electronic affidavits. PayPal also added customer service staff: 280 agents are now available daily, says Vincent Sollitto, vice president of corporate communications. Most complaints are resolved within 24 hours, he says.
