posted on February 18, 2001 07:39:59 PM new
junque, therp - I did not know someone was going to die. It was just a super ugly day in the sky for a RACE and I would not have chosen to be there, or to watch.
It appears (no birthtime yet) that T Urnaus and Mercury were conjunct his Moon in Aquarius and opposite his N Pluto.
Okay kimbniovitch you are correct that you are in a new phase, and you are going to find it to be very serious for the next 2 years plus. Same thing for your ex, via Saturn transiting Gemini and aspecting every planet in both of your charts. Everywhere either of you look, you are going to see ADULTHOOD staring you in the face.
This is another one of the things that could hook you together btw. It is like you have a shared experience and you get serious together. Couples do not always have a situation like this (rawbunzels do) and it is neither preferable or otherwise because both ways have their merit.
What I mean is you two may share a prolonged period of having to expend hard effort and so you can commiserate.
OTOH - if people do not share so much, then one partner can cheer and support the other through a difficult time.
The downside of that is when one person is dragging, the other soaring, it can cause some resentment (on both sides) and so it is hard to call really yea or nay really - this depends on the 2 people and their commitment to each other.
Anyway, I wish I could tell you which way it is going to go with this guy but I cannot because you are both going to have a choice. Neither of you is going to have the luxury of being frivolous about much of anything, and this includes your relationship.
I would believe him that he was hurt, and also that he forgives you.
He is an extremely candid person (double Sag AND a packed 9th house AND Jupiter in the 3rd house) and this is not a guy to hold a grudge (like tell you "no problem" and then pay you in spades 3 weeks later...)
What is going to happen here is that you are both going to take a very serious and mature look at your relationship and then you are going to talk. You will find that any tricks or bs either of you may try to pull will get you nowhere fast. You can be very sure that whatever the outcome is - it will be utterly correct. IOW you will not marry this guy and "whoops" a year down the road. OTOH if you lose him, or he loses you, then you can be certain that you were only meant to spend the time you did together, learn what you did and take it with you. What I am trying to say, is don't dog yourself over what you did... "if only, then blah blah blah..."
As my sister would put in the way only she can (and Jupiter and Moon conjunct @1 degree Sag ie, your language) "If you got the right guy, you can start your period on your white dress on your first date and it won't make any difference."
If you doubt that is true - just ask a man. If he wants you - then you are it. If he wants to leave, for that matter - if anyone wants to leave you, then what you should do is open the door and wish 'em well. You already know this is true.
Last, your guy is a WAY Sagittarius BUT very capable of commitment, via a 7th house Saturn. He is a rare wild horse BUT he will not be able to tolerate clingy which is not YOUR style either, so be yourself.
In the end here you may have to do that old adage... "Set it free and if it comes back to you..."
I don't mean to be ridiculous --- it is just in this case, this is exactly the way it is.
posted on February 18, 2001 10:21:24 PM new
Hrm....am chewing on that one. Situation: he has forgiven me as much as he can, but he is still wanting _majorly_ that I still work on our problem. Basically, I did say to him about a week and a half-2 weeks ago that if he wanted to date other women, that I would understand. I didn't say I would be happy with it, but I did say I would understand, which, I do. SO...it turns out that this weekend, he did date somebody else...and what happened? OH, the gossip...so awful of me! So what happened? Every moment, he thought of me, and he had a terrible time. He decided that he didn't want anybody else (I am overjoyed, of course)...and called me, and I _failed_ to deliver what he needed to hear from me. I was so wrong about how he wanted me to act toward him...basically, I screwed the whole thing up again. Man, I thought I understood people, but I will be darned if I can figure this one out.
Ok, so you say he is a Virgo and is also WAY Sag...shouldn't I relate to him then, as a Sag? Grrr, I just don't get it. This is not my idea of paradise.
Ok, sure, I want to know about my future, my health, my current cruddy financial situation...but more than anything, help me understand this guy. Please!
posted on February 18, 2001 10:37:08 PM new
I just realized that I have sort of been taking all your time...if you have somebody else to get to, don't worry about me and my strange ever-changing life...don't want to be a VM hog.
posted on February 19, 2001 06:58:09 AM new
Kimbonovich - quit dogging yourself. Big kudos on turning him loose, and you see he comes back. I appreciate that you are wanting to nail this down, but this is not possible and will never be possible because you are BOTH in constant motion and always will be by your very natures.
What I mean is -- say you decide to marry tomorrow and so you do.
That is not the end of the game.
Hell, it's not even a "rest stop" because you two don't rest.
Understand your own nature - a constantly changing and morphing landscape and appreciate that his is the same. There is GLUE in the form of Saturn that holds you together (Your Saturn is conjunct his Sun, Venus, and that is SUPER glue) and you are witnessing this already, but if you are going to be together and go the distance it will because the two of you see the value in the interaction and your both tweak here or there in order to accommodate each other, and commit to continuing to live this way.
What you are NOT is two fixed sign people who negotiate a relationship and then stay in their roles for the next 25 or 30 years. Both of you ebb, flow, grow, glow, crow etc. on a DAILY basis and so if you want to form a relationship this has to be respected. What I am saying is forget about trying to align with what he wants you to be (if he even knows) because what he wants CHANGES every hour on the hour.
Mark my words.. What he wants "majorly" today will be not all that important tomorrow and forgotten in 2 weeks, sop you see, the nail gun idea is fruitless and hopeless. It may be that as changeable as you are, you could possibly be better off with a person more fixed. In this model - they are pretty much stationary and you constellate around them. Either way can work, but if you pick THIS guy - forget the nailing down. This guy "travels" in every sense of the word.
posted on February 19, 2001 07:11:19 AM new
LOL! But that does not make it any easier to deal with! I thought only women were supposed to change their minds and be moody! HA!
Well, if I accept this now, I suppose it won't be easier to do, but easier to understand.
Ok...if I can grab a few more minutes of your time...I know that I am going to be doing the rumba and the waltz and the cha-cha and everything you can think of all over the place with my life, emotions, etc. But, can you tell me _anything_ about my health, future, and financial situation? I got very curious when you said,
"Neither of you is going to have the luxury of being frivolous about much of anything, and this includes your relationship."
Of course, that sounds really true of our financial situation right now. Cross your fingers, pray, and all the other things, because he has a job interview today, and our being able to pay our prospective rents this month relies on him getting a job! He's very bad with money...and, well, I am not...and so...ugh, don't want to point fingers, but basically, he is the one that got us into this situation. I would have been just perfectly fine and set up for rent for the remainder of this school year, if I were the only one spending the money...if you get my drift. Any forecast in the stars(planets) as to the money situation?
BTW, thank you, thank you, thank you so much VeryModern...you have been of tremendous help. I _really_ appreciate what you do here, for myself and for everybody else. I think it's awesome. I think that goes for everybody else too.
editing for grammar
[ edited by Kimbonovich on Feb 19, 2001 07:44 AM ]
posted on February 19, 2001 09:24:26 AM new
What a treat you are Kimbonovich - check this out...
First you are wanting to be the perfect blah blah blah, (this is your Virgo side) and are hyper critical of yourself, analyzing your behavior to the nth degree.
Now you come back happy go lucky, expecting to land on your feet, and for the record it was Gemini rising that did the flirting, not Sag (sag preaches) and your Pisces Moon that feel so bad for causing him pain.
So... I do not see problem for him professionally, his struggle will be far more personal and have to do with his family, and it will hurt. What I am saying, is YOU stand back (it is his Moon / a woman - first to be hit) and let it be his mother who he tango's with.
Make sense?
Do not, not, not let yourself be put in the "mommy" slot - hold your position which is Lover (Venus).
This guy lives on extreme faith to a large degree and 95% of the time this is going to pull him through. I see the money problem for him very clearly but I do not have any profound worry because of both his knack to pull through and because he has the ability get a grip on it and he will probably via this Saturn transit. What I mean is the consequences of his spending are upon him and I think he will get it the first time and even if he doesn't the faith thing really does work for him. What I am trying to say is that he does not lack the ability to be more frugal, he just needs to see the need and when he does he can adjust.
Also, the more I think about it, the more I think that you guys will wind up together, the thing is I don't know how.
I think you will still be "talking" in 20 years, I am just not sure that you will be married (to each other). There is a huge and beneficial bond in both directions, so if you move away from each other, you will still come back from time to time. In 10 years, middle of night and you (or he) is having a bad time, who are your going to call? You will call each other and the call will be answered in both directions. See, you will only be apart if you find that you cannot be together, which you may discover, but you will never lose the fondness that you have for each other and that is a pretty wonderful thing.
Yes, I see that your health is stressed.
You have Mercury Uranus in the 6th in Scorpio which is being T by Uranus. Because of Uranus, the thing is expect the unexpected, and pretty much impossible to predict but what this suggest is a problem with the lungs (Mercury) or reproductive (Scorpio). Obviously if you smoke (and you very well may as a way to cope with all this nervous energy) you should get off them because your lungs are under constant stress and this goes for all your life not just at the moment. Mercury rules your chart, so this is a big deal --- your whole well being is contingent on the condition of Mercury (lungs), so if you smoke, consider yourself one of the ones who won't get away with it, not the other way it goes.
Now with Uranus in there, this makes health problems unusual in some way either the course of the disease or treatment is disrupted or perhaps you get something odd for someone in your peer group. A young person with an old person's disease for example. Whatever is going on, you have a spectacular trine to your Pisces Moon to this conjunction and so your best access to it (for knowledge or healing purpose) is via your Moon in Pisces which mean intuitively. What do you feeeeeel is wrong, or what do you feel that you need. That kind of thing.
Good luck, and as for the next 2 years and the Saturn transit - take notes. You will reap what you have sewn in 7 years for good or ill, so what can say? Do the right thing.
Oh yeah, and one more thing...
He is not moody, he is moving and there is a difference.
Don't tell him he is moody, because he will not like it. He is feeling here, and then there, and then over there, and he is thinking high and then low and then in Sanskrit (or whatever) but he is not moody and as a matter of fact, he is AFRAID of being moody and so telling him that would actually distress and confuse him. What he does is FEEL without boundaries and this is another affinity between you - your Pisces Moon = his Moon conjunct Neptune (Pisces planet) in the 12th (Pisces) house.
posted on February 19, 2001 09:43:40 AM new
Hehe, ok, that makes a ton of sense. As for the health issues...I don't smoke, but I grew up in a smoking household, and my mom has quite a few problems with her lungs as a result. I, personally, won't be taking that route. As for reproductive...yes, sort of, on the right track, but nothing more serious than major cramps, which are currently being taken care of. (Oops, was that TMI?)
Well, as for the interview...oh gosh...I don't know how it went yet, but I was on the phone with him while he was on his way, driving...and he had to let me go because he was getting pulled over. I am dying to find out what happened!
Thanks for all the help, VM...I feel relieved. Thanks on the heads-up on the family problem he's going to be going through. He and his mother have had a few pretty intense disagreements in the past...I only pray that the disagreement isn't over ME.
posted on February 19, 2001 09:54:51 AM new
Does everybody see how these two keep talking?
That is the thing.
You will never stop talking, married, together or otherwise.
Pretty nice.
Your Jupiter is in Virgo with his Sun and Venus.
His Jupiter is in Pisces with you Moon.
Reaaaall nice.
Good luck to you and btw Saturn is the COP that just stopped him. He should pay attention.
posted on February 19, 2001 10:04:33 AM new
oh.. and to people who are studying, note that Mars is in Sag and we have a Sag asking about a Double Sag....
posted on February 19, 2001 11:42:02 AM new
What does Mars symbolize?
Well, good news everybody...as to the cliffhanger there. He got pulled over...didn't have a current registration, or insurance (because he left it at home on his desk), and he had gone by the place to renew his license this morning, and, of course, they were closed for the holiday! So, he got 2 tickets, one for the insurance, one for the registration...cop let the license fly since he had a renewal slip.
And, he got to his interview on time, and it went _GREAT_! They said they think he's their candidate! It is so awesome! They're supposed to call him again this afternoon.
Yeah, no joke we talk all the time! And you can _imagine_ what some of our phone bills have looked like! OUCH!
Oh, and he's meeting his mom for lunch...yes, his mom. I hope everything goes ok.
That's the update for now...all the info I can think of.
posted on February 19, 2001 12:01:16 PM new
Mars = raw male energy, Aries, sex, fighting, war, aggression, speed, blood , red, violence.
on the talking... just think about it.
How are you guys going to stop?
I don't think you can.
And days then weeks then months and years go by and there you are.
Still talking.
This is also why things have to keep moving.
Something new to talk about.
It is going to ouchy with the mother this year, so easy on him.
If you guys are in this together, your turn is coming right behind his (your mother).
Shared experience I was talking about.
posted on February 19, 2001 12:11:40 PM new
Oh really? Are you sure the stuff with MY mother isn't already in the past? I put up with crap from her for 18 years...and now I am FREE! FREE, FREE, FREE, (insert maniacal laughter here)!
If you say so, I will believe you, though, because my mom is a Scorpio...she and I don't seem to mesh well. I don't have a birthtime on her, but can email the date. I can ask her about the time if it makes a huge difference.
Well, the mom thing could be the shared experience...or what I was thinking that it was was our inability to get away from each other, lol. It almost killed me when I thought I couldn't talk to him. Of course, at the time, he was getting upset because I was talking and talking, but not talking about the important stuff.
posted on February 19, 2001 12:26:59 PM new
This is for the Virgo born at 9.59a who is interested but ambivalent about astrology.
I will not id you, you can claim your chart if you want.
I have thinking about your chart for some days now trying to figure out the deal, and it has finally begun to gel. I would suspect that this is also how people experience you in real life too.
What I mean is, if you meet or run across someone like me it is kind of like being slapped to the ground - you are going to notice it like an assault.
This is not good or bad, it just is.
OTOH when people meet you they are left a little baffled.
Baffled how?
Baffled as to you intention, what you want, what you need, what you care about, etc. etc. etc.
Now for contrast, once when I was about 20, I was thinking about putting a bumper sticker on my car.
So my sister says "what the hell do you need a sticker for? You are going to get out of the car and tell 'em who you are anyway."
Uh, yeah, she is right.
You need a bumper sticker.
OR
People need time to assimilate who you are.
Now why is this?
There are several reasons.
First you have a very nice Sun Moon trine. Virgo Sun, Taurus Moon, one of the easiest matches in the zodiac. This means that how you "act" is in accordance with how you feel which believe me, is not necessarily the case with people out there. Now what this means (besides a mother lode of inner peace) is that when you come into a room people do not sense "a disturbance in the force" - something inherently incongruent about you. This is akin to "hiding in plain sight" which by the way is something you are motivated to do and I feel a tangent coming on.
The reason that you want to hide in public, is to very carefully control your public image. You are very visible and very concerned about what people think and if you are going to err, it is going to be on the conservative side. Most likely this was what you were taught to do when you were a kid. To control you eccentricities, along with tendency to dream and fantasize.
Now this does not mean that you are always successful by a shot. Neptune has a mickey of epic proportions which he routinely slips the cop (Saturn) and so you are released from your ability to control, as well as your need, and when you least expect it (unless you drink in which case you exercise some control over this).
Okay, so back to the public - what they see is this mish mash.
Here it is taken apart.
Libra rising = I am polite and pleasant
Saturn conjunct rising = I am conservative, in control and interested in business.
Neptune conjunct rising = I am here, no over here, no over here, no I am just an illusion over... POOF!
PLUS
Uranus conjunct the MC = I am progressive, detached and intellectual
Venus conjunct the MC = more of the Libra above - I am pleasant (and in Cancer) and I support and appreciate women.
There....
Is that clear?
I thought not but I bet that you recognize all that.
I have more comments I think, but I am taking a carpal tunnel break.
Since no one knows who you are, I will tell them and then they will know, provided you claim your chart.
I am kind of introducing you I think. I am being your bumpersticker
posted on February 19, 2001 12:30:53 PM new
Kimbonovich - I don't need to see the data to tell you that you are never over and done with your mother.
Never. It is just not possible.
posted on February 19, 2001 01:19:23 PM new
Okay, so if therp is feeling low he is easily cheered with food. Taurus Moon in the 7th house has exquisite taste and so will not care to go slumming.
Taurus Moon gives the beautiful voice I have mentioned before and is in the 7th(Venus) house, is a double dose of Venus, so you suffer emotional distress in an ugly environment - either badly decorated or even with ugly people - either of these bother you.
There is an emotional need for a relationship, to be paired off.
This is interesting because it is shown twice - Moon in the 7th and Venus in Cancer
You also want the committment on paper and this is also shown twice:
Venus in the 10th and Saturn in Libra
Now it seems a given that you would marry and stay that way for life BUT Uranus conjunct Venus and square the Neptune Saturn conjunction shows that this is not the walk in the park for you that it should be considering that you are saner than most of us.
interlude
As Christopher Walkin who always plays psychos is quoted (loosely) "I have been married for 30 + years, and you can't do that and be crazy.."
interlude
and so I don't know if you managed or what - but I do know that if you swore off marriage / partnership or something like that -this was an error and you should re-think because you will ever truly be happy alone even it this means you have to contend with a, b, or c.
Another struggle you have is with your Sun in Virgo leading a Stellium in Leo in the 10th. Here we go with the astrology again.
Your Virgo would initially reject astrology but in the 11th house, is progressive and so possibly inspired to study a bit and then WHOOSH - you find validity and one more Virgo joins our team BUT---- You (your Sun) has to fight alllll this fixed Leo in the 10th that so wants to be respected publicly that your Sun would have to get a trench coat and glasses to go to a local astrology club.
I mean what if the "clients" found out? You know. The voting pubic.
We can't have that! We cannot let eccentric activities interfere with the business of being taken seriously!
So what this means is the Virgo intellect (super charged in the 11th house) wants to run it ain't that easy.
In face therp - that could be your motto.
See, to "us" is looks easy, but this is an illusion and so for you the deal is, "It ain't as easy as it seems..." and this covers almost every area of your life.
posted on February 19, 2001 01:36:37 PM new
Absolutely amazing VM! Just to fill in a few details for you - I am single - never been married and had pretty much done the swearing off you refer to. And then recently the Neptune mickey you mentioned earlier showed up and smacked me in the head - which would be directly related to the question on the other thread. But, as you mention, it ain't easy, and in fact the person who attracted this interest seems to be already married to someone else. I think I'll go order a pizza.
posted on February 19, 2001 02:09:13 PM new
Okay therp - that is a little sad to me, but I can see how it happened and also the married person thing.
See, you have your own blend of what cmbtboots, me, rawbunzels and some others have to deal with and really your trouble is mostly like mine, because I, like you have a real NEED and desire for relationship combined with various impediments to forming and maintaining one.
Now being a Virgo you certainly don't have to be married, especially in the 11th house, but what about your Moon?
Moon in Taurus needs LOVE and in the 7th house (From a partner), and so depriving the Taurus concerns me.
It is very easy to see WHY there is a problem with Venus.
It is actually under attack in 3 ways, but still the emotional yearning is there and so I am afraid to report that love is food to a Taurus and so not only are you not FEEDING it, you are STARVING it IOW you are allowing the one challenge in your chart (the mess with Venus is your only mess) to completely dominate your life.
What this means is that you exist ini the square, in the tension, in the pain and avoid your trine.
Wanna know what your sun / moon trine wants?
It wants to eat dinner with the partner and then go out to a meeting (alone, independently) and then come home and sleep with the partner and feel skin.
What about letting THAT dominate the life and forcing the square to act in a different manner for a switch?
How about considering the prospect of meeting some of your emotional needs?
posted on February 19, 2001 02:21:58 PM new
Hi VM! Well, what I think is that it sounds like an excellent idea. However, at least at this point in time, it is also something which would be impossible to arrange.
posted on February 19, 2001 02:56:39 PM new
well therp, let me go back to this configuration..
The public thing.
I just wanted to offer you a high me and of expression.
On the extreme, fear and a need to control take the wheel and repress your expression.
Alternately, a state of drunkenness (real or otherwise) obliterates the cop and all restraint is lost.
The self directed model would (could) work something like this...
"I am a painter of my work of art, and I have these various paints to work with and I am the master of the paint, not the other way around.
I do not have all the colors, but I have red, I have blue, and I have yellow, and I can mix them to make many, many others and so I have quote a bit of control here, and especially high quality paint.
If you can try to operate along these lines it will take you much closer to where you want to be.
Control for a positive reason and result basically, as opposed to a reason based on a nebulous fear.
posted on February 19, 2001 03:12:54 PM new
a true Virgo question therp.
Always ready to live your life in service BUT I meant a positive result for YOU understanding that the higher the number of happy, satisfied people in the world, the better the world is for all of us.
posted on February 19, 2001 06:03:48 PM newQUESTION for VeryModern:
If the placement of the universe at the time and place of birth determines so much about who we are (and I don't doubt that much of this is true, as your analysis of my chart rang true, while the analysis of others' charts did not for me), then why is it that so many of twins, especially fraternal, seem to be so different from each other?
posted on February 19, 2001 06:27:39 PM new
Actually the opposite is true.
Twins separated at birth and then reunited as adults very often find that they have lived parallel lives.
For twins not separated, they often strive to differ from their twin to have some autonomy.
In my own personal observation of twins I have noted that in some pair one twin lives a Yin kind of life, the other Yang and they give the impression of being parts of a whole. This is my perception of the twins in my husbands family - one sister lives a very male life - unmarried, breadwinner for the whole family and the other sister is a stay at home wife and mother.
There is another set of twins I see at the gym and they walk around as in a bubble. Hell you can almost see the sac around them like an aura, I am not kidding, and one is slightly male looking, the other more rounded and softer. The + twin runs fast and hard like a piston, the - one jogs slowly to keep her curves . They step on and off treadmills next to each other mindlessly but in total tandem and it is just impossible not to watch them.
Anyway that is another tangent.
There is also the issue of different rising signs - twins are rarely (I dunno, I have never been there) never born at the exact time I don't think, but I don't know because I don't have good data (with birth times) on even one pair.
But that is irrelevant really because I do not see that your basic premise is correct.
I think that twins are remarkably alike, even if one takes the high road and the other takes another.
Back to the cop and the criminal thing again. Same energy used for different purposes.
posted on February 19, 2001 06:59:25 PM new
Then I guess my next question is about rising signs. What is it, exactly, and does it differ by the minute? Does that mean that if my doctor's watch was a little off when I was born that it would make a difference?
I do concur on the whole yin/yang thing. If they're raised apart, they are soooo alike without knowing. And, if they're raised together, there is usually at least one who is just striving to be different than the other.
I used to work with twin girls...both 16, ADORABLE (Hey, I am not that way, but I have to admit, they were so cute). Anyway, the one wanted so much to be good at everything, and was always showing her twin sister that she was better at this and that. Better grades, good in athletics, etc. And, of course, since she was trying to constantly prove herself, she was always comparing herself with the other, so she WANTED and LIKED being a twin. Whereas the other, she was fed up with all this bragging, and set about pretending that the other wasn't her twin, trying to set herself apart. I totally felt sorry for the latter of the two...I would have done the same thing. People like that really get to me.
but I bet that you recognize all that.
