posted on December 17, 2000 04:41:25 PM new
If you would like me to look at your chart - email complete birth data (Birth date, exact birth time and city) to [email protected]. and I will post comments as feasible.
There is a huge body of work here - lots of information.
You will get more out of what I write about your chart if you read the thread.
Thanks, VeryModern
Astrology in the news, and sadly but typically, astrologers are insulted in the face of proof.
(Also increase around full moon - births, deaths, crime, etc. etc. etc.)
~~~~~`
NATIONAL NEWS: Telephone trends leave BT over the moon
Financial Times; Dec 16, 2000
By ANDREW WARD
People make more telephone calls in the days leading up to a full moon,
according to research by British Telecommunications.
BT noted that cyclical peaks and troughs in telephone use matched the
phases of the moon, with 10 per cent more calls made in the week before a
full moon.
Roy Gillett, president of the Astrological Association of Great Britain,
said it supported astrologers' belief that people experienced "a build-up
of
creative and emotional energy" ahead of a full moon.
BT said it might target advertising and manage its network according to the
state of the moon. "If we can prove a link then this could well make a
difference to the way that we dimension our communications network and
implement marketing campaigns," said Stewart Davies, managing director of
BTexact, the research and development arm.
Telecoms analysts in the City reacted to the news with bewilderment and
suggested it showed how desperate BT was to reduce its Pounds 30bn debt
mountain.
"I would have thought BT had better things to do with its time than watch
the moon. If this is their new business plan then the company must be in a
worse state than we feared," said one.
BT monitored 2,000 customers over six lunar cycles. Applied to all BT
customers, it could mean 9m extra calls a day before a full moon.
"We are working to check whether other factors are at work, but at the
moment it does look as though certain phases of the moon encourage people
to pick up the phone," said Mr Davies.
Copyright: The Financial Times Limited
[ edited by VeryModern on Jan 20, 2001 12:23 PM ]
[ edited by VeryModern on Feb 20, 2001 05:46 PM ]
posted on December 17, 2000 07:43:04 PM new
ah - but PMS is only ENHANCED higher charged energy that can be channeled in a positive manner as well as otherwise.
*This is you*
*This is you on steroids (under the full moon)*
*Where do you want to go today?*
posted on December 17, 2000 07:43:16 PM new
Hello VeryModern,
"Roy Gillett, president of the Astrological Association of Great Britain, said it supported astrologers' belief that people experienced "a build-up of creative and emotional energy" ahead of a full moon."
I think someone should explain to Mr. Gillett that correlation and causation are two very distinct phenomena.
BT apparently has made a correlation between phone activity and Moon phases.
But to infer that such a correlation is the result of some causative effect that the Moon has on peoples' creative and emotional energy is simply tripe without the support of repeatable double blind studies.
posted on December 17, 2000 08:07:51 PM new
oh criminy - I can't speak for him, but what I think he said was that astrologers believe that people experience increased energy around the time of a full moon and that this study supported this idea.
I can say that most astrologers I know, do believe that their is increased activity around a full moon and apparently this study found same..
Now.
What are you saying?
No one said that the moon *caused* anything.
Is that the hangup?
posted on December 17, 2000 08:18:17 PM new
Astrologers do not think that planets make people do things. They believe that everything and everyone is connected, and that this system can be charted. We do not claim to understand the language completely. If we did, we could explain it to someone like you (codasaurus). Because astrologers as a group have not managed to precisely crack this vast and complex code at this point in history does not mean that one does not exist.
posted on December 17, 2000 08:39:42 PM new
VeryModern,
You are an astrologer?
I think that any reasonable person upon reading what Mr. Gillett has to say would conclude that Mr. Gillett is claiming that the Moon does indeed have some causative effect (in the BT example it is the Moon's phase that causes an increase in people's creativity).
And I agree that astrology has a bad rap. But in my opinion not undeservedly so. The idea that the positioning of the planets has some effect on people is not without some truth (since every body has some gravitational effect on every other body). Unfortunately, astrology has blown the effect out of all scientific proportion.
If you hope to convince doubters that astrology is a practical science then you must follow the principles of scientific method.
Saying that you just don't know how to decode or expound on some "scientific" relationship is a very weak defense for any assertion, astrologic or otherwise.
Now, if you could use these charts to actually predict someone's future with a modicum of accuracy and show how such predictions could be repeated by other disinterested parties, I might be less of a doubter.
posted on December 17, 2000 08:52:00 PM new
Hoo-boy, Codasaurus you must not have read VeryModern's astrology posts here. Yes, she is an astrologer, but I think she will be the last person to tell you that she can "predict" the future. Perhaps you have astrologers confused with fortune tellers. They are totally different animals. As for "causative" or "correlative" effects of the moon, there is quite a bit of "science" out there that bear this out. Ask any trauma or OB nurse, or ask any law enforcement officer. Statistcally, it has been shown that more babies are born under a full moon, also more violent crime is committed. We also know that the moon has a causative effect on the tides. And any woman can tell you about the moon's causative effects on her body.
posted on December 17, 2000 09:36:24 PM newIf you hope to convince doubters that astrology is a practical science then you must follow the principles of scientific method.
Whatever for? Sociologists seldom do. Of course, they have a not undeserved bad rap, too. But who's talking science. I'm thinking this topic broadens my concept of cyclical stocks.
Serendipity & Peace...
posted on December 18, 2000 12:56:09 AM new
Of course if you shine a bright light in peoples enviroment at night it effects their behavior. It probably did so even more when artifical lighting was weaker and more expensive.
Astrology is just like most of the popular belief systems - they see a relationship between two things and if it is direct cause and effect or not they take this grain of truth and exrapolate and expand upon it all out of proportion to the strength of the original observation until EVERYTHING is related in a nonesense matrix where the position of some minor planet effects tooth decay.
posted on December 18, 2000 05:04:42 AM new
Codasaurus - I am an astrologer, but I do not want to convince any one of anything.
OTOH I have studied astrology for more than 30 years by observing events in my life and the people around me as well as in public view while taking note of the position of planets.
I have read several hundred books, maybe twice that, who's counting?
I have attended various lectures and workshops taught by several respected names in the field
Last, I have read and written to many of the top astrologers in the world via Internet mailing lists for YEARS, so please understand that I am highly unlikely to toss astrology to the curb because you come along and call it "tripe."
If your desire is to discredit astrology, you will not have much luck in my neighborhood. If you are truly interested in this subject from a scientific perspective - then I recommend "Cosmic Loom - The Science of Astrology" by Dennis Elwell. There is a copy available on half.com for $24.95.
I am good at what I do, but defending astrology or converting the skeptical is not my bag. You have to understand that this is true by my nature. I am interested in astrology, primarily psychological astrology. If you are not, that is fine by me whatever your reasons. I am happy to live my life and your approval of what I think about during the day is not of any consequence to me. I am not meaning to be mean - this is just very simply the truth.
posted on December 18, 2000 06:22:25 AM new
KatyD - you are of course, correct regarding the statistics, thanks for posting.
Now back to this biz / astrology thing.
You know who really really needs one (besides AOL and Ebay - who repeatedlty launch new things when Mercury is Retch)? The guy who keeps trying to fly around the world in a balloon. Every time he takes off on another ill fated attempt astrologers note the time of launch and shake their collective heads in disbelief, knowing that he has no hope in hell of success. If anyone can - please pass this along. He is a cool guy and we want to help.
posted on December 18, 2000 09:31:38 AM new
VeryModern,
If astrology is not about predicting the future then why make a statement like:
"The guy who keeps trying to fly around the world in a balloon. Every time he takes off on another ill fated attempt astrologers note the time of launch and shake their collective heads in disbelief, knowing that he has no hope in hell of success."
I didn't post here to disparage astroloy or astrologers. And I think you have taken my "tripe" comment out of context. I qualified my opinion about drawing an inference about causation by stating it was tripe "without the support of repeatable double blind studies."
That you don't care about what doubters of astrology think is rather disingenuous of you considering you started this topic by stating that "astrologers are insulted in the face of proof".
You started this topic seeking to defend astrology and appear to be begging off such a defense after I express my reservations and ask for some semblance of scientific proof that astrology really can predict the future.
posted on December 18, 2000 09:55:35 AM new
This is the AW round table. A place to kick back, relax, and have fun! Share a story, tell a joke, write a poem,
make a friend...
How about letting the rest of us, enjoy Verymodern.She has spent many hours of her free time to help people.And without really
Knowing what is involved in that,Please lighten up.Or we will have a major hug fest.
Hug fests happen on the full moon waneing.
posted on December 18, 2000 10:13:00 AM new
My own sense of logic does not allow for a belief in astrology. VeryModern always makes a lot of sense to me. She's good at what she does and it's fun. I really enjoy her posts.
My psyche is wracked by forces in adamant oposition.
I'm going with the fun side on this subject.
Milady, even though it is unbidden, I am at your service.
posted on December 18, 2000 10:17:45 AM new
codasauras you are not reading very well.
I did not say that astrology was not about predicting the future, this was posted by someone else. Astrology most certainly does allow a person to predict events and with extreme accuracy. My own record is very nearly perfect over the last 10 years. I have no way to prove this to you in a way that you would accept, but it is the truth just the same.
As for you being able to repeat this result, you could, or you can, but you must study and I have already named one place you might begin. I can perform brain surgery but not after an hour long crash course or reading the Sunday paper. See what I mean? Interpreting astrological charts is a skill and expertise does not come fast, cheap or easy. Dive in ans see how long it takes you to become boggled.
As to why I started this thread - you have completely misinterpreted me. I came across article and it interested me because it combined two of my passions - astrology and business. This is why it caught my eye. I posted it on Auctionwatch because over the last year I have read many references to the "full moon" on various forums. Enough to know that there is some interest from the group that hang here. If you think I posted so that I could defend astrology, you are wrong.
As to my comment - it was very brief. I said that it was SAD and TYPICAL which is my feeling and my observation. A feeling is not something I will try to justify. It makes me sad that astrology is so maligned and that is all there is for me to say on the subject. On the other, you have already agreed that the reaction in the article is the norm in this point in time so on that we agree.
Last - it is not that I don't care about "doubters" and I am sorry if I was not clear on this. I don't care to convert or convince doubters. Other astrologers do and Dennis Elwell is one of them. Bottom line here is that you are asking me to present a passionate argument for something I have no passion to argue. You got the wrong gal.
posted on December 18, 2000 10:36:15 AM new
Aw, codasaurus wants to argue. Isn't that cute? I endorse a hugfest. They often rid one of didactic irritants.
Incidentally, CS, I do find much of what you say to be correct, although moot. It appears you have an unpopular agenda. One might also question your position as not germane to the discussion at hand.
Should you wish to fight, there are myriad sites catering to your desire. Kindly avail yourself of one, or more.
Serendipity & Peace...
posted on December 18, 2000 10:37:50 AM new
VeryModern,
No, I do read very carefully. Your post that I quoted indicated that you believed you and other astrologers could predict the future. I wanted to see you post an unambiguous statement to that effect.
Now that you have let me ask you a few questions.
How would someone verify the accuracy of your record?
Do you publish your predictions before the predicted events?
Do you make predictions concerning events other than purely personal events?
Do you cast horoscopes for others?
Would you be willing to cast my horoscope here for all to see? And if so, what information would you require about me?
posted on December 18, 2000 10:45:00 AM new
In modern mythology the phase of the moon is often called upon to explain peculiarities in human behavior. The incidence of violent crime, emergency-room visits and traffic accidents are all believed to increase beneath a full moon. But the phase of the moon has apparently little to do with humanity's penchant for lunacy: Statistical studies have dismissed any association between lunar phase and the number of reports on the police crime blotter.
For centuries the moon has been linked to insanity (the word lunacy derives from the belief), accidents, health changes, and other aspects of human behavior. The full moon, in particular, is thought to exert the most powerful effects on behaviors.
To test this age-old notion, 90,000 emergency trauma calls were checked in 13 counties in California to see if the number of intentional or accidental injuries was greater during the full moon or not. The answer is.....did you guess right? NO. The number of fires, motorcycle accidents, or insect stings did not vary with the phase of the moon.
This is certainly a widely believed phenomenon, even (especially) among medical types [1], but it's simply not true. Large-scale studies have found no association between the phase of the moon and childbirth [2-3], suicide [4-7] (one study did find a very small difference, with women only, showing fewer attempts at full moon; other larger studies found no such effect), accidents [8] (again, a very small effect - this time of crescent moon - was seen, but was probably a small-sample effect), crisis calls [9], and absenteeism [10].
posted on December 18, 2000 10:56:09 AM new
Umm, last I heard, correlation does not imply causation. I bet we can find a whole bunch of neat things that also correlate with violent crimes and women's periods that don't cause them or relate to them.
[ edited by jamesoblivion on Dec 18, 2000 10:56 AM ]
posted on December 18, 2000 11:27:04 AM new
Verymodern: Please, please don't grant Codasaurus's request to cast his horoscope. He'd probably sue you it it wasn't accurate.
Codasaurus: Let me guess - I bet you were originally attracted to the Round Table by the political threads.
posted on December 18, 2000 11:39:23 AM new
Hello jameso and stockticker.
Been a while. I miss the intelligent discussions. OK, the silliness too. Snarky today. Hate to incite and run, but I'll wander off without kissing anyone on top of the head.
Oh, yeah. Happy holidays. May the magic of the season bring you closer to those you love most.
posted on December 18, 2000 12:14:10 PM new
Hello StockTicker,
To be candid, I was attracted to The Round Table because I have been doing Site Searches for posts by Networker67 for months now and he recently began posting to this forum.
Is how I initially came to this forum and thus found this thread of interest somehow relevant?
And if someone cast my horoscope and I took them to court over it, what would my basis for a claim against the astrologer be? That I did or didn't suffer some damage as a result of doing or not doing something based on my interpretation of the horoscope?
Astrologers may assert that they predict the future but I think the courts would be just as doubtful as I currently am about such a claim (made by me in support of a damage judgement).
In any event, I would like to see a public demonstration of a horoscope and a resulting prediction as this would at least be a start towards a demonstration by scientific method about some of the claims made by astrologers.
Very Modern has posted that the code of connections is vast and complex and not well understood and has also posted that their predictions over the past 10 years has been highly accurate.
That indicates to me that VeryModern is particularly skilled in this art and as such should be able to demonstrate the art to me and others. I offered up myself as the subject of such a horoscope but any public person would due, provided the predictions predated the occurence of the events themselves.
I would like to know if astrology can really predict the future or if the predictions are more like taking a shotgun to a target and only counting the near hits while ignoring the misses.
posted on December 18, 2000 12:24:00 PM newHow would someone verify the accuracy of your record?
My interest and my expertise is the psychology and evolution of the individual as opposed to calling a public or some other mundane event (weather, stock performance, etc.) although the latter is the direction that most advanced astrologers take.
These days I predict for individuals when I feel moved to or because they ask me to and I think I can provide information that will help them in some way. Sometimes I do it for fun or just the exercise of it.
I do not do charts professionally for many reasons but the only one that matters is "I don't want to".
Because of this, all I could offer in the way of proof is the word of these people, and I have no intention of doing that. Bottom line here? No proof.
Do you publish your predictions before the predicted events?
I do not "publish" anything.
I told my husband when I met him that his mother was going to die or come right up to the door within a month or so after knowing him 2 days.
Within 6 weeks she had two heart attacks and emergency quad bypass (she survived). She is in NY, we are not, but this was bloody obvious to me via his chart, and I was compelled to tell him.
I told him not to worry too much about a new guy he was working with, because the guy would not be working there for more than a week or so anyway. I also told him he was a registered in the courthouse liar, which is why he was fired of course.
I told him 3 years ago that his high flying multi-millionaire sister was going to hit a wall and go down for an extended period of time and face extreme hardship when Saturn went into Gemini which is beginning now. The Wall St dot.com where she is #2 woman has fallen and from high of $70 is now a $2 stock. There is not a future there, and while I am at it, she is also very sick although no one knows it yet. She is really going to get hit hard, but believe it or not, this is in her best interest.
I told my hairdresser that her drugged out punk little jerk ass insufferable son would in fact survive (thanks to a grand trine in his chart) and come out smelling like a rose even, but that he would be a total pain in the ass for another 21 months. I told her a lot of things which all came to pass (I said he was going to jail for one) except the older woman I said he would meet who would have all the power, adding that there was nothing he would be able to do about it - well she never showed up.
Then she called me and told me that it just dawned on her that her son's PAROLE officer was a woman.
Yeah. That's her.
((He has since concluded (Uranus transit) this phase and is of course, soaring in his life with no ill effects from his past behavior as expected.))
This gives you an idea of what I do, and the examples are really pretty endless. I have done this for a very long time.
Do you make predictions concerning events other than purely personal events?
I do not predict anything mundane like OK city bombing or OJ Simpson type stuff.
I do not (cannot) read an "event" chart at all (this is a different school completely).
I also cannot even claim beginner status regarding the reading of a chart of some entity (the stock market, the US, the State of California, etc.).
Truly, I am just not interested.
I do have an interest in the "collective" in the largest sense imaginable though and so I do look at trends some in a very big picture way and when correlations occur to me. I will offer an example.
(junque - you will love this)
There was a line up of planets in Taurus this May. Taurus represents possessions, & self worth among other things. So with the planets moving at their various speeds - this pile up has been forming since the beginning of time (I don't know when that was) and I imagined that this point in time where they planets joined in Taurus would mark the peak of the collecting craze. The conjunction has passed now and so we slowly move (and I don't know how many hundreds or thousands of years) to the opposite point, which would be a line up in Scorpio which is where you clear the decks.
Taurus like to hang on to everything, Scorpio likes to flush.
We are moving in the Scorpio direction now.
Do you cast horoscopes for others?
I peep at the chart of every person whose birth date / data comes my way. How long I look at it depends on how interested I am. I am a human being, not a machine and some signs and aspects (configurations / mathematical relationships) in a chart are more interesting to me than others based on my own bias. Consider a psychologist who may be able to treat anyone, but is better suited to working with people with certain disorders. I had a dentist once that would not clean teeth. He sent you elsewhere. He said that he liked to pull teeth, not clean them. I could understand that.
Would you be willing to cast my horoscope here for all to see? And if so, what information would you require about me?
I would actually like to see your chart . I would need date, city and exact time and you could send it privately to [email protected]
Regarding reporting on it - I will make no promises. A chart in hands like mine gives potent information and I cannot compromise my integrity by promising to post XYZ and seeing via the chart that it could be hurtful to you in some way. For example, you cannot run around telling people that their mother is going to die unless you are prepared to deal with the fallout. You also cannot make the underside of a private individual public when it is clear via the chart that this would cause duress.
Make sense?
OTOH if you send me the data of an exhibitionist.. well then you're on.
Or if you send me something and it is abundantly clear to me that there is something I need to tell you, then I surely will. For the record, I imagine that this is the most likely scenario.
I make these restrictions because my motive cannot be to shock you or prove something, without consideration of you an an individual. Otherwise I get dirty here and I won't have that.
posted on December 18, 2000 12:24:44 PM newThe guy who keeps trying to fly around the world in a balloon. Every time he takes off on another ill fated attempt astrologers note the time of launch and shake their collective heads in disbelief, knowing that he has no hope in hell of success.
It's unfortunate the situation below wasn't predicted- it sure would have saved some trouble.
