posted on October 13, 2000 01:25:23 PM new
I just left my first negative for a NPB. I know, this person deserved it. She responded to my EOA with promise of payment. I waited. She continued to bid and paid her other sellers, as evidenced by their feedback. I waited. I sent a reminder, through the listing page and from my email account (should have been OK, the original EOA obviously went through). No response. I filed a NPB. No response. Today I filed the FVF request and left a negative. I'd probably feel better, if this person had a history as a deadbeat, but I put the first negative on a rating that was previously 29, with no negs or neutrals. Is it guilt, or am I really worried that she's going to retaliate and screw up my perfect record?
posted on October 13, 2000 01:30:22 PM new
You did the right thing! As a fellow seller, I thank you! Don't feel guilty-----you gave her plenty of chances to respond. I know how you feel, though. Every time I have left a neg for a deadbeat I check my feedback obsessively waiting for a retaliatory neg in return. <crossing fingers again> Haven't gotten one yet...
posted on October 13, 2000 01:31:01 PM new
I sell on Ebay and other places for a living. I have no interest in fixing the world nor in getting into a feedback war with anyone. I never give negatives. FB is for buyers and buyers only. I don't accept checks and so I never even look at a buyers feedback. However, I am pretty certain a lot of buyers check out the seller before they send that Money Order or Paypal cash.
This is an area where sellers handing out negs (for what?) can really burn themselves.
posted on October 13, 2000 01:35:41 PM newjada:
If the buyer was served with a NPB (which she would get a copy directly from eBay) & a FVF request was filed then at least an additional 10 days had elapsed. If emails from the seller and from eBay are not getting through, then she has a problem. I never call deadbeats. Why should I pay long distance charges to get ahold of someone that has chosen not to pay? More effort than it is worth, IMO.
You bid, you win, you pay in a timely manner. That's the way it works. If there is a problem, you contact the seller.
[ edited by debbielennon on Oct 13, 2000 01:37 PM ]
posted on October 13, 2000 01:37:55 PM newSeems kinda odd that she would pay other sellers while refusing to pay you.
Maybe not so odd- I have left negative feedback for a similar type buyer who has lots of positives, but included along with their good feedback were a couple of "never responded, never paid" negs. I think some bidders just choose to blow off some deals, and don't worry about their feedback record all that much.
posted on October 13, 2000 01:53:06 PM new
I'd love to see a thread on sellers who do or do not leave negative feedback when bidders don't pay. I learned the hard way that leaving it only gets you a negative back so I lean toward not leaving. It would be good if buyers could not leave negative if a final credit has been applied for by the the seller. Just another great suggestion for Ebay! My poll would be I don't leave negative all the time for non payers I go for the credit and hope two other sellers do the same so they get suspended.
posted on October 13, 2000 02:02:36 PM new
jib444-
Do you look at your buyer's feedback? Do you base your shipping (upon receipt of a check, rather than holding the item for the check to clear) on that feedback?
posted on October 13, 2000 02:06:34 PM new
I don't hardly ever check the feedback on any of my buyers. I just don't have the time. I do write them a couple times nicely to see if they forgot their payment if their feedback record is decent. As for shipping. I ship as soon as I get their payment on all types of payment. 2 1/2 years on ebay and I got 2 bad checks and they both made good on them and paid my bank fees.
posted on October 13, 2000 02:09:19 PM newI do write them a couple times nicely to see if they forgot their payment if their feedback record is decent.
But how do you know their feedback record is decent, if sellers don't leave negatives?
posted on October 13, 2000 02:11:48 PM newI learned the hard way that leaving it only gets you a negative back so I lean toward not leaving.
I've left about 170 negs from my selling account and only have 10 in return. So, I don't know why people say if you leave a neg you'll get one in return. I've found retalitory negs are rare.
It would be good if buyers could not leave negative if a final credit has been applied for by the the seller.
I'm against any rule that prohibits people from leaving feedback. There are two sides to every story.
posted on October 13, 2000 02:14:59 PM new
I chose to leave feedback on this bidder because I felt that, as someone suggested, that she probably chooses to "blow off" some transactions, and I suspect previous sellers in my situation let her ride. As a seller, I'd like to know which bidders are "hit and miss" payers before my auctions end, so I can stay on top of them. She admitted in the one response I got that this was a gift for her brother, who collects these as she does, and I suspect that she found out that he already had one like it or had a falling out with him and was feeling less generous. Maybe the NPB mark and neg will get her attention, and she'll take her winning bids more seriously. I have to agree with DL. A $10 item doesn't merit a phone call, especially when the bidder has acknowledged that she owes the money and then failed to send it.
posted on October 13, 2000 02:16:55 PM new
Good points, I'm not here to argue. But if a responsible seller on Ebay reports non payment..it means they didn't get paid. Ebay should have some system where the negatives of the buyer who didn't pay could not leave any comment on a transaction they didn't complete. I guess it's not a perfect world but asking for a credit does give them a ding if they repeat the act two more times. Let me also rephrase before I get picked apart...I send out friendly reminders to all people who don't pay within the 10 days before I go for the NPB alert.
posted on October 13, 2000 02:22:15 PM new
I've only been selling on ebay since May and so far I've left 2 negative FB for non-paying bidders. Neither of them negged me in return.
I always send my EOA notice within 24 hours after the auction closes. If I do not hear from the bidder I send 2 follow-up emails requesting the status of the transaction. I never threaten or try to coax the individual to pay or else. On the tenth day I file the NPB notice if the bidder has failed to contact me. Ten days after that I file for the FVF. A day or two later I post factual, non-emotional negative feedback.
So far all of my bidders that have responded to my EOA notice or one of my two follow-up emails have paid within 45 days and we've concluded the transaction on a friendly note. I never want to become frantic over the payment. Afterall, I still have the product. In my opinion getting stressed over the payment is what leads towards retaliatory neggs.
posted on October 13, 2000 02:27:25 PM new
jib444-
My point is (and I'm not trying to pick you apart) that it seems somewhat ironic to me to read that a person doesn't leave negative feedback out of fear that a retaliatory neg will spoil their record.
By not leaving appropriate feedback, users are devaluing the very system they are trying to use to support their own record. When it gets to the point where nobody leaves negs, and everybody knows it, a perfect feedback record is worthless.
edited... hit the reply button too soon
[ edited by mrpotatoheadd on Oct 13, 2000 02:30 PM ]
posted on October 13, 2000 02:30:21 PM new
I believe that some bidders pick and choose who they wish to pay. I have been waiting 26 days for payment from one bidder. I sent two nice reminder emails in the last week and then filed a NPB notice. I went to look at her feedback again (the first time this person was all positive) to see if possibly there was a problem. This person had 4 negatives within the last three days and 3 positives. Based on their recent feedback, I do not expect to get paid. She is choosing who she wants to pay or not pay. However, I did give her until Wednesday of next week to have her payment in my mail box. If not, I told her I will relist the item and leave appropriate feedback. The feedback will be a non emotional negative that states the end of the auction date, number of emails sent and that this person did not honor the auction. that's it. Based on the responses this person is leaving for the negs, I am going to receive one from her. There is nothing I can do to prevent that except not to give the neg. This person deserves it and this person shall receive it. I truly believe that some bidders realize that sellers are bluffing and will not give negs, so therefore they continue on their merry little way bamboozling (as my dear Grandmother used to say) the sellers. Whew, time to go home.
posted on October 13, 2000 02:30:45 PM new
Debbielennon - I know how the system works, I've been an Ebay member for a long time and have dealt from both sides of the fence.
I did ask if the cost of the item was worth a telephone call, the suggestion was a suggestion, not an order.
I enjoy Ebay, both buying and selling, and I really don't understand the paranoia and vindictiveness that sometimes occurs with a non-paying bidder. If selling generates animosity, why bother?
posted on October 13, 2000 02:46:58 PM new
Okay guys I am opening my soul here to you......Your all right and feedback should be left accordingly but....The few times I have left it and got retalitory feedback it has wrecked my whole day. I take it sooooo personally. I try so hard to be honest, go out of my way to please and accept all returns and even give them back their postage. But a negative hits me to the core like being a Baby. I get so upset by it when it is just not justified or they didn't even talk to me first when I offer refunds and state it in my auctions that it physically make me upset. That is why I choose to go for the Credit and hope in time they will get their due. Thanks for points they have made think and maybe I will get a little stronger.
posted on October 13, 2000 03:10:52 PM newThe few times I have left it and got retalitory feedback it has wrecked my whole day. I take it sooooo personally....But a negative hits me to the core like being a Baby. I get so upset...
Why let a nasty comment from a deadbeat upset you? I could see if it were somebody whom you respected - but a deadbeat? All they are is mad you called their bluff and are reporting it to the community. If anything, it's a compliment to your integrity that you rankled them so badly they have to leave a retaliatory neg.
posted on October 13, 2000 03:18:53 PM new
Hey, jada---just to clarify---the comment about "the way things work" was directed at the bidder, not at you
I also realize your phone call comment was a suggestion, which is why I said IMO a phone call to a deadbeat is more effort than it is worth.
I don't see leaving a neg for a deadbeat as vindictive or paranoid. I see it as a courtesy to other sellers. When I have someone that is really slow to pay, I always send them a courtesy email to remind them. If I don't hear back in 2-3 days, then I file my NPB. Sometimes things happen, and I am very understanding if they take a minute to let me know what is going on.
posted on October 13, 2000 03:23:00 PM new
It's not that the deadbeats upset me. It upsets me that my feedback rating looks bad. I take that too personally. One person bid on my auction and she wrote back that my items came with bugs! I of course can write back in my response: Never paid or shipped this item....but the ruin of my feedback record when I am so damn honest makes me upset. I started looking at other sellers who had over 500-1000 positives and no negatives or neutrals and wondering how could this be. When I play the system right I take a chance and have to go through that pain. Since I have been giving them dings through getting my credits back for about 6 months now, I haven't gotten any. My record is 1090 feedbacks and I think 4 negatives from absolute idiots! Most with no feedback to speak of real newbies. I love selling on Ebay but this aspect at times almost made me quit because when in the begining when I explained to Ebay how a Negative was totally unjustified of course you all know the response I got from Ebay about removing. That person even realized their own mistake giving me negative which should have been positive and they still wouldn't take back her remark which was meant for someone else!
posted on October 13, 2000 03:39:35 PM newjlb444: Ya know, most of us bidders (that's what I do mostly, buy on eBay) can tell that a seller has received a neg from an "absolute idiot".
If the negs a person leaves are factual and unemotional, they are (IMHO) less likely to get retaliatories in return. And if they do, they're obvious and easily ignored.
posted on October 13, 2000 03:46:37 PM new
Thanks Glenda I hope your right. After you get over a 1000 feedbacks though the negatives just get burried and it would take a bidder 1/2 hour just to find your negatives to see why you even got them. That's why I get upset you look at my record see negatives on the first page and without a timely search through my feedbacks you would have no idea that they were from idiots. I really appreciate your post it makes me know some of the bidders out there and I have dealt with some really nice people are "Understanding" some are not. Some seem like they are on perpetual PMS lol. Like the ones who write to you right after the auction. and I got this recently..." I am the top bidder to your auction please be advised I can not leave you positive feedback if you do not, email me the day when you receive my payment, email me the day you send out my item, and leave me positive feedback the day you receive my payment." I seem to get these "Kukamunga's" all the time. It's like walking on Egg Shells with this type!
posted on October 13, 2000 03:59:44 PM new
Jib444...oh wow!! Thought I was the only one who took things personally!! Guess we need tougher skins. I'm both a buyer and seller on eBay, and over the past year and a half have been selling a bit more than buying. I was kind of proud of my FB, over 135, for someone who does maybe 12-14 listings a week and I had no negs until last week. Yeesh, I bent over backwards for this buyer. She did send me all sorts of emails telling me she had sent payment via MO, even went so far as trace it after I told her I never received it, said she really did send payment, yada, yada. This went on for over two months, with me like a jerk giving her the benefit of the doubt. I finally said I've had it!!!! Of course, stupid me, it was too late to file with eBay for credit. Took it as a loss, and figured, next time I would not be so generous. I finally left a neg FB. Yeesh, no sooner was it posted then she sent a neg, even stating that I was NASTY!! Now that really hit home. Moi nasty...no way!!! Bothered me all day though. The only up side was that I relisted the item and sold it for more than her dead beat bid...so I did recoup my loss after all. But that neg really stings. I guess I should repeat, we need tougher skins. Harumph!!
posted on October 13, 2000 08:13:39 PM new
jlb444--I hope you responded with something like:
I'm glad to have you as my winning bidder. I have read and understand your terms, and it's really a relief to see that someone else understands how I feel. Please read the following, as I will not be able to leave positive feedback for you if you do not email me with a reply which reads "I understand" when you finish reading these terms, if payment is not received within 5 days of receiving this email, if you do not email me immediately upon returning from the PO with your package and again after examining the contents and if feedback is not left immediately after emailing after examining your item.
posted on October 14, 2000 04:08:02 AM new
Well, guess who I heard from this morning. Please keep in mind that this person placed bids and paid for items during the time she was "on vacation" and received a NPB warning 10 days ago. How coincidental that the computer was fixed, just last night!!!:
I am so sorry I've not responded to your last email. When I got back from
vacation mid-September, I found out that my computer had been left on and had
gotten zapped during a storm. When I turned it on, it started smoking!!!!
Scary indeed! After getting the hard drive repaired, we just got it up &
running tonight. Thank goodness, everything seems to have been restored. But
I have learned an expensive lesson. NEVER EVER go on vacation without
checking to make sure the computer is off & unplugged! I am now trying to
catch up on a month's worth of email and ebay auctions, etc.
I truly thought I had sent you a check for this widget and
had been eagerly awaiting its arrival. I had just started wondering if
something had happened. Seems as though you never received it.
I will double check my records and put a stop order on the check if
necessary, and send you another tomorrow if that is okay with you. I noticed
that Ebay has put my on some kind of warning list about this. Would you
explain to them what happened...or should I?
I do apologize for this problem. I think you can tell from my Ebay comments
from past purchases that I have been quick with payment. It is possible that
in the confusion with the computer going down, this got overlooked and I
didn't realize it.
Please advise me if it is not too late.
Thank you for your understanding.
Deadbeat Bidder
I told her to go ahead and put a stop payment on the check, as the widget has been relisted and all steps have been taken to recover our ebay fees. Gotta give her an A for effort.
posted on October 14, 2000 06:25:39 AM new
Fearless is absolutely right !!!
Feedback is for Buyers only.
How many sellers have cancelled a high bid due to previous negative feedback ? None !!! So what is the point of leaving neg's for deadbeat bidders ? None !!!
How many bidders have passed on a seller's auction due to negative feedbacks ? Lots !!! Any seller that fails to deliver the merchandise as advertised should recieve a neg.
From a seller's perspective:
I make my living selling. All other sellers are my competition. I will not risk tarnishing my reputation by leaving negative feedback for a buyer and recieving one in return to help other sellers. I have yet to find a bidder with all negative feedback. In most cases, they had changed their mind and decided they did not want the item. I would much rather they not pay, then pay and try to return it for a refund after recieving it. We also operate a retail store. We do not give negative feedback to customers that return items or cancel layaways. We smile and say Thank You, maybe next time things will work out better. That is all part of being in business. The online world is no different. Check the feedback of the last person that you left a negative for. You did not stop them from buying, only buying from you. What a fool.
Before those of you standing on Soap Boxes begin your sermon about the "Community Spirit", in case you haven't noticed, Ebay is not a community. It is a marketplace, and in any marketplace you do what you have to do to get a leg up on the competition.
Our Payment / Deadbeat Policy:
Day 7: Reminder from us.
Day 10: Non-paying bidder notice
Day 20: Final Value Credit and Relist
Day 21: Get on with life
posted on October 14, 2000 06:50:07 AM new
MrJim - thank you!
You're absolutely correct. I've copied and pasted your "schedule" into notepad, printed it, and taped it next to my computer.
You've probably saved me a couple of hours over the next couple of years just in the time it takes to word a neg professionally, when you really want to leave, "non-paying jerk!" and in the time it takes to check and see if a retaliatory neg has been left.
As a less than one year seller, I appreciate advice from veterans.
posted on October 14, 2000 07:02:23 AM new
I had a buyer that had a pretty good feedback of 40 or so. She said she was paying me, and kept bidding on others. Feedback would appear that showed she completed deals after my end date. It made me crazy. She then emailed me ..dad was ill..then dad was dead. But she kept finishing deals after mine. Another seller emailed me and had received mail from her from another email address. The seller did a search on second email address. Six months ago she had 30 feedback, then you could see her comments to negative feedback. Dad was ill, dad was dead. She got naru'd off both accounts. And I bet she is out there now bidding away, getting great feedback, and then....So I think you gotta neg them early!
posted on October 14, 2000 07:33:11 AM new
I can and will cancel bids if there is a string of negs or a serious amount of bid retractions.
I do not care how many positives someone has. If their payment is late with me, it is late. If their service is lousy to me, it is lousy. Either way, there is no excuse that cuts it.
Although I could never imagine it, if I was ever late paying someone, I'd send the payment priority mail with a DC. People need to take responsibility. Deadbeats deserve every neg they get.
I like MrJim's schedule--keeping it simple works for me too. I just prefer to neg as warranted.
