posted on September 20, 2000 07:19:53 AM new
vargas, so what's your point. You've just like repeated yourself 20 times in every thread about Paypal. Since you haven't even opened an account with Paypal, that's even better. There are still other services out there.
What's the point of all this bitc++***?. Other than passing your time here in AW, how is this helping the community?. I've already opened a Yahoo Direct account...why don't you do that too & let it end there.
posted on September 20, 2000 07:42:50 AM newcomic123
Hey!, Investigating a problem and stating your position on a topic is not bitching. If you want to read
"sweet nothings" there is a new group on the Ebay Chat for New Features
that you might enjoy.
posted on September 20, 2000 07:57:04 AM newFountainhousenot one of them required blanket authorization to access my checking account
BillPoint didn't required checking account access? When I signed up for it they did, they even retain that access if I close my BillPoint account was the understanding when I signed up. Either they've changed their policy or you're in error.
posted on September 20, 2000 08:35:49 AM new
Heather
What you continually fail to understand or intentionally overlook is the fact that PayPal has and is using deceptive marketing practices to dominate the online auction payment business.
Let me restate: PayPal Damon and others claim that they are only passing on credit card charges at cost. This would be fine IF IT WAS A TRUE STATEMENT! PayPal is charging for other services, (Account balance payments and bank account debit payments) These services have NOTHING to do with credit card payments. (This is missleading)
In PayPal's comparison of fees with other services they either deliberately or otherwise missled people into believing that BidPay charges sellers $5.00. (This is missleading)
Their little announcement calling sellers' honesty into question is also missleading. They have never provided any guidelines for people to go by. They left it up to the individual (saying that people would upgrade to get their wonderful new services). This did not work so they felt it necessary to remind (intimidate) sellers into upgrading.
Their FREE listing days: If memory serves me correctly, they said they would credit accounts $.25 for each listing.. This would only be free if your starting price was under $10.
The promised $5.00 referral fees for anyone you sign up for their services. Now the person has to verify a bank account (they never, that I know of, announced this change). It took everyone by surprise. Many people are scared to allow them access to their accounts and will not verify. We have 6 pending referral bonuses and haven't had an actual referral fee credited for a couple of months.
They wanted everyone to verify their bank accounts. That would be fine if we didn't have to check a box that allows they access to make withdrawls. This was totally unnecessary and makes me wonder what they were up to (at least when they initially came up with the idea).... They continually say one thing and do another. Why should we trust them with our bank accounts?
What I (and others) would like to see is more competition in the online auction payment business. Why don't I just quit using them? Many of our customers like the convenience and want to pay that way.
Will all of this have an affect on PayPal? Will it hurt them? If you don't think so then you are deluding yourself. Why do you thing Billpoint lowered it's charges? Because they saw an opportunity! Why is Damon around attempting to calm the restless natives? Because it is hurting them. It is that simple.
This whole thing will cause a shakeup in the auction payment services business and PayPal will not come away unscathed...
Your statements that we are all just wanting a free ride are also missleading...... Many of us are also registered with Billpoint and other pay services. I don't have, and have never had a problem with them...... I fully intended to upgrade as soon as they (PayPal) implemented their services such as international payments, etc..... But since they (PayPal) have continually showed a lack of respect for their customers, and have resorted to strong arm tactics and deceptive tactics, it is not likely to happen.
posted on September 20, 2000 08:36:25 PM new
Hmmm..some interesting discussions. I wasn't aware of the referral-bonus change, either.
Would be nice if PPD could clarify the situation on unauthorized withdrawals, since there was a post earlier that seemed to imply that your bank would cover it (in my case not a bank, but a credit union) as long as you reported the "forged" withdrawal after getting your statement.
I'm not sure this is correct. (If it was, why would they need the insurance from Traveler's?) And even if there are laws originally written to cover forged checks, I don't think they apply to electronic debits, especially through entities "authorized" voluntarily by the consumer. There's a consumer reporter where I live who makes noise about not giving that kind of access.
At any rate, there are a number of other PP issues of concern raised here on the board. I was one of those cynics who figured they would have to start charging, but the way that they seem to change the TOS around as they please and say take-it-or-leave-it does not augur well at all.
There are posters in this thread that think that take-it-or-leave-it gives the consumer all the power he needs. Sometimes I wonder why they even read these boards, since these boards deal in the public-relations space and the take-it-or-leave-its obviously think the only way consumers should "speak" is by denying business. It's a shame it has to come to that, but if PayPal is run by like-minded sorts, then I guess the only thing that will get their attention is account cancellations.
I would be willing to go back to the pre-verified state (i.e. able to accept payments and deposit to my checking account or to pay for items with a credit card), but I doubt they'll offer that. Maybe unregistering and re-registering as unverified is possible, but I'm sure it'll result in lots of nags and carrot-and-stick tactics to get to be verified again.
posted on September 20, 2000 09:12:57 PM newuaru, With all the other online services I joined, the registration process was virtually the same as paypal's unverified account (which was their only account at the time). I provided my credit card and checking account numbers (the latter for purposes of deposits), as well as all other pertinent address data, etc.
Paypal is the only service that now wants my permission to take money out of my account.
There are far too many good alternatives to paypal than to acquiesce to such a questionable requirement.
posted on September 20, 2000 09:13:35 PM new
And one very simple way to increase safety in your online accounts of every sort - is to change your passwords every so often. -Rosalinda
TAGnotes - daily email synopsis about the Online Auction Industry
http://www.egroups.com/group/TheAuctionGuildnotes
posted on September 20, 2000 09:35:04 PM new
Hi fountainhouse,
Please read the second half.
b]uaru[/b], With all the other online services I joined, the registration process was virtually the same as paypal's unverified account (which was their only account at the time). I provided my credit card and checking account numbers (the latter for purposes of deposits), as well as all other pertinent address data, etc.
Paypal is the only service that now wants my permission to take money out of my account. (Incorrect. If you already gave your checking account numbers out to another financial institution, I would ask why you wouldn't want to verify it? Verification does not give us access to your account to withdraw from it. It identifies that you are who you say you are and that this is you.You would have to initiate the transaction in order for any money to be withdrawn.Please refer to item#7 in the TOU.)
posted on September 21, 2000 10:40:30 AM new
HI ploughman,
I've dealt with one case where the customer (possibly) selected or misunderstood how they were making a payment. There have been no unauthorized withdrawals and the issue is coming in on the Send Money page.
Users that have verified their bank account are, possibly, confusing PAY WITH A BANK ACCOUNT with their DEBIT CARD that is on file as their credit card.
posted on September 23, 2000 10:07:44 PM new" With all the other online services I joined, the registration process was virtually the same as paypal's unverified account (which was their only account at the time). I provided my credit card and checking account numbers (the latter for purposes of deposits), as well as all other pertinent address data, etc. Paypal is the only service that now wants my permission to take money out of my account."
Fountainhouse, You need to check up on your BillPoint account. I assure you that they will only give you an account on the condition that they can access your account in the case of a chargeback, in such case they withdraw the amount of the dispute plus a $10.00 fee. Should you close your BillPoint account the access you gave them remains. Ask BillPoint if you don't believe me.
I'm not sure where you got the information about PayPal wanting access, I haven't see that in the terms.
posted on September 23, 2000 11:03:13 PM newI'm not sure where you got the information about PayPal wanting access, I haven't see that in the terms.
uaru, much of paypal's recent controversies began when they required this access in order for a user to become "verified"; indeed, it is part and parcel of the verification process.
Their TOU pledges that they will not withdraw a user's funds without their permission, but threads such as this one illustrate perfectly the many inadvertent (or not?) possibilities.
As far as billpoint et al, none of them require users to undergo such a "verification" process. They all require the same basic information, checking account number among them. Yet none of the others expect their users to submit to, IMO, a questionable and unnecessary process like paypal's "verification."
posted on September 23, 2000 11:13:00 PM newYou need to check up on your BillPoint account. I assure you that they will only give you an account on the condition that they can access your account in the case of a chargeback, in such case they withdraw the amount of the dispute plus a $10.00 fee.
Would you care to post a link to something that supports this claim uaru? There's nothing in the Billpoint User Agreement that supports your statement, and when signing up for Billpoint the only information you give them about your checking account is the bank name, routing #, and account #. This information is printed on every check and therefore available to anyone you write a check to -- it does not authorize them to withdraw funds from your account.
I'm not sure where you got the information about PayPal wanting access
You're not? That's pretty amazing, considering how aggressive PayPal has been in their attempts to get users to give them authorization to withdraw funds from their users' bank accounts. While their terms state, today, that they will only do this in response to explicit requests from users, they've shown that they're perfectly willing to unilaterally modify the terms of their user agreement. Which means that they're 100% free to change that caveat to include "or to recover any fees PayPal deems are owed" and there's nothing a "verified" user can do about it.
Which is why I'm perfectly happy to remain an unverified user.
posted on September 24, 2000 12:03:27 AM new"Would you care to post a link to something that supports this claim uaru?"
Nope. You may call my claim erroneous or you can write BillPoint if you want to investigate for yourself.
I'm not being difficult, but they've changed the wording in their TOS where they don't spell it out clearly, and the chargeback fees can only be access via your fee schedule, which you can't link. Keep in mind this is for a "seller's account"
[ edited by uaru on Sep 24, 2000 12:11 AM ]
