posted on April 10, 2002 10:13:29 AM new
April 09, 2002
1:13pm EST
Dear Readers (And Damon-Paypal)
Over the past couple of years I have been a member of the Paypal service. I recently became a business member as I started my own home based business in Oct, 2001.
In the past couple of months I have had some complaints on my account about delayed shipping. This was due to an error with FedEx which delayed all shipments from my business for 2 weeks. Customers filed fraud complaints against my account, and my account was restricted until I supplied all information regarding tracking #'s for the complaints filed.
I supplied all information on numerous occasions, and even faxed over a list of 150+ tracking #'s to Paypal in order to prove that I was a legitimate business and was shipping goods.
Over the course of these months I was speaking with a Chris Frerich at the Complaint Resolution Dept. After reviewing all information that was supplied to him, he unrestricted my account.
I went to withdraw the large amount of monies being held in my account that had been collected over about 3 weeks ($12,000+) and my account was immediately restricted again. This time, by the head of the Complaint Resolution Dept.
Even though I had provided the requested tracking #'s and information on numerous occasions, he felt that his company (Paypal, Inc.) has some sort of liability issue. My account has been frozen since then, and I have been notified that the decision is final. I was also notified that my account was arbitrarily closed and that all funds would be held for 6 months from the last transaction date (Mar 07, 2002)
I got a call back from Mr. Frerich again explaining that that decision was still final and that there was no hope of receiving my funds until the 6 month holding period was up. This was almost 2 weeks ago. I called him numerous times leaving voice messages, and have not heard anything back. I have also called at least 10-15 times requesting that a manager call me back, and have yet to hear from one.
At this time, Paypal is still holding over $12,000 from my company, JBMotorsports. I have a close friend of mine who is a lawyer and has a BAR in not only my state (Florida), but also in California.
If I do not get any resolve from this letter or the numerous phone calls/emails, then I will have the Letter of Intent sent this week and we can start with the legal proceedings. I will not only seek payment on the money that is being held, but for the expenses that I have to go through in order to get it (Interest, as the funds have been held for over 1 month now, lost business, any and all fee's).
I have also seen numerous class action suits that have been threatened, and wish to join those if I do not get any resolution from this final attempt.
If there is anyone here who can give me any advise or any resources, they would be greatly appreciated. Please contact me if you have any information regarding the class action cases.
Damon: For you, here is my Paypal account information if you feel inclined to work with this situation:
Email address: [email protected]
Name: Clay Barnes
Last Transaction Date: Mar 07, 2002
As said before, I supplied ALL information requested. If you look at my account, you will clearly see Mr. Frerich's name plastered all over it. Contact him if you need any further information regarding this, as I faxed everything to him as he requested.
Thank you,
Jonathan Barnes
JBMotorsports by Jonathan Barnes
[ edited by JBMotorsports on Apr 10, 2002 10:25 AM ]
posted on April 10, 2002 11:46:08 AM new
another happy customer.....well i hope if anything good comes out of this least you will know in future if you keep on using paypal to sweep your account every day
posted on April 10, 2002 11:54:08 AM new
Maybe Paypal sees the liability insofar as you have 137 points on eBay, and
79 negatives! You've also been suspended from eBay. That's one of the worst
ratios I've ever seen, and I doubt any reasonable person wouldn't see the
potential liability of releasing $12k to someone with such a poor performance
record.
posted on April 10, 2002 12:42:47 PM new
Most of the negatives came from after the funds were frozen in the account and I could not pay my supplier to have the products shipped. Over the course of the past 6 months, my account has been frozen numerous times as I said above. It was frozen anywhere from 2-9 days at a time...that downtime caused a lot of problems. Up until I started dealing with Paypal a my main form of payment, along with FedEx as my shipped; I had an almost untouched FB rating. I wasn't suspended from EBay either. I had the account closed so a new one could be opened in its place... The new account not dealing with Paypal anymore. Paypal doesn't have ANY liability though, because most of the payments that people left negatives about had nothing to do Paypal...as their payments were made via Billpoint &/or Money Order/Check.
posted on April 10, 2002 01:27:56 PM new
JBMotorsports,
Your feedback through Jan and Feb was pretty bad (understatement). You offered a lot of different responses to those negative feedbacks, mostly you just blamed your buyers.
posted on April 10, 2002 01:43:21 PM new
and on top of that on many of them you posted a retalitory neg. Seem like you didn't get the product shipped and put people off. Lookin at it from a nuetral point of view I can see why the funds need to be held !
posted on April 10, 2002 01:57:35 PM new
When you get over 400 emails a day, along with over 75 phone calls...you can't keep up. I explained to the buyers the situation, but most of them didn't want to hear it. You get defensive, especially when you have no control over what is going on (Paypal restricting my account, and FedEx wanting to get paid from the funds that are in the Paypal account before they will pick up packages). As some of you may or may not know...Paypal restricts your account when they get a certain # of complaints. It doesn't matter if they are false or not, they close the account first and ask questions later. After speaking with FedEx over a copule of months, I was finally able to set up billing on a monthly basis instead of daily so that I could get pickups and not have this problem. This agreement happened about a week ago...long after Paypal had and still is holding the $12,000 from me.
The point is though, that ALL customers from Paypal have been taken care of. I have sent tracking #'s for EVERY customer over the last 2 months just to prove to them. After I shut down the JBMotorsports account on EBay, I went ahead and made sure all the negatives were taken care of. Everyone who has left a negative has received their product, and everyone who paid through Paypal has received their product. That's why Paypal has no liability, no matter what they say. I have already proven to them on numerous occasions that everyone has received their product, but they either do not care enough to review it; or, they are just continuing thier practices that have doing over the past couple of months.
posted on April 10, 2002 02:31:11 PM new I explained to the buyers the situation, but most of them didn't want to hear it.
JBMotorsports,
The feedback records and your responses are there for all to see. You blamed the buyers (a lot), you blamed your ISP, you blamed the weather, you blamed the courier, you blamed hotmail, etc.
About the only response/excuse not used was to say your dog ate your homework.
If eBay didn't NARU you and you closed your account voluntarily then shame on eBay. 179 positives, 33 neutrals, 79 negatives, and this didn't happen in one month.
posted on April 10, 2002 02:52:39 PM new
I understand the problem but If I was in the same boat I would have given fed-ex a different credit card and followed through with all my shipments and had the paypal mess straightened out in the meantime. Yes you would of had some intrest charges and such but I think you could have saved face with all your customers. Unfortunatley you have lost a large customer base because of all this. Hindsight is 20/20 but Like urua says I saw nowhere that you accepted any responsibility to ship the products after your first choice was not available. Anyways not trying to dog you and I wish you well. Hope it all turns out ok in the long run.
posted on April 10, 2002 05:17:30 PM new
When you get over 400 emails a day, along with over 75 phone calls...you can't keep up. I explained to the buyers the situation, but most of them didn't want to hear it\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
have you considered paring back??it sounds like you bite off more than you can handle?
posted on April 10, 2002 07:03:47 PM new
"I understand the problem but If I was in the same boat I would have given fed-ex a different credit card and followed through with all my shipments and had the paypal mess straightened out in the meantime"
FedEx did have my credit card, and that was the problem. I asked numerous time for a monthly invoice to be sent to me and to be paid by the credit card, but they wouldn't do it. They charged my credit card every day that I sent shipments out, and because of all the charges is what messed me up.
"have you considered paring back??it sounds like you bite off more than you can handle?"
If you meant paying it back, yes that option was offered. When I emailed most of the customers though they had already filed the fraud charges and I was litigating with Paypal over whether to send the funds back or trying to supply tracking #'s for the products. As I said already though, all complaints that were filed against my Feedback, as well as all complaints that were filed with Paypal have been resolved. I could see where Paypal would feel liable if they had 100 customers filing fraud against me, and I couldn't provide tracking #'s or anything; but every time there was a fraud charge filed against me I responded immediatly with a tracking # or an attempt to settle the debt (Either telling Paypal it would be sent soon and provide a tracking # when it was, or the option for a refund from my Paypal account).
As I said before, I did get behind. The responses on the feedback were just retaliations for getting the negatives. If I had kept using the same reason over and over (FedEx messed up, Paypal froze my account, please wait), then people would have looked down on that also....So either way there was no way I could defend myself in the feedback forumn while still trying to get everything worked out with Paypal.
posted on April 10, 2002 08:31:53 PM new
no,i mean PARING back your operations.
it sounds like fed exp is charging your cc and hitting the limit,they dont have confidence in extending you credit for 30 days,they must get paid as service is rendered.
it takes money to make money,do it slowly and build up some credibility with your suppliers,they would always want to get paid upfront when you are a new customer,so you need to have some working capital or rather a nice chunk of your own money up front.
dont always count on your credit card,if you cant pay it off at month end,interest could eat up your hard earn profit.
posted on April 13, 2002 10:37:34 PM new
Jesus, you're a terrible seller! You closed your ebay account? Oh i'm sure thats likely, as if Ebay didn't suspend your ass.
Basically you defrauded hundreds of people, You can't blame it on paypal or fedex, it's your fault.
"The point is though, that ALL customers from Paypal have been taken care of."
So you take care of the people who paid via paypal, what about people who bought your merchandise by money orders, I emailed a few of them, and they haven't recieved their merchandise.
You have had numerous complaints about shipping the wrong items, dented merchandise (going to blame that on fedex too?).
And to top it off, you leave ficticious negative comments on peoples permanent ebay records. "You get defensive, especially when you have no control over what is going on", Boy you sure have an excuse for everything don't you?
You're suppose to deliver the merchandise to the buyers, if fedex rejects your credit card, go with USPS, UPS, ANYTHING. It's your fault, if only you shipped your items on time you wouldn't have gotten complaints from buyers, and your paypal account wouldn't have been suspended.
In short, you fucked up, I hope you never see a dime of that 12 large, it should go straight to the people who didn't recieve their stuff. You should spend that money to pay for 100 squaretrade mediators to fix the childish comments you left for your buyers who YOU DEFRAUDED AND LEFT CHILDISH COMMENTS FOR.
You need to get your facts straight bucko. I have already dealt with you on EBay, and now you come here lying like the child you are. Who exactly did you contact asking if they received their product; and furthermore...HOW DO YOU KNOW WHO PAID VIA MONEY ORDER AND WHO PAID VIA PAYPAL!? It's interesting how you are all knowing on the forms of payment, that you are able to
"So you take care of the people who paid via paypal, what about people who bought your merchandise by money orders, I emailed a few of them, and they haven't recieved their merchandise"
I think it's pretty ironic how you can determine who paid in which ways, and just email those exact people. Why don't you give me a list of the names of people who haven't received their products...go ahead and email that list to me.
As for this comment:
"if fedex rejects your credit card, go with USPS, UPS, ANYTHING"
If you would read IDIOT, you would see that FedEx DIDN'T REJECT my CC, they CHARGED IT TOO MUCH which caused the problem. If I went with UPS/USPS, they wouldn't have been able to charge my card because FedEx already messed it up.
Quote from above for the underage users in the room:
"FedEx did have my credit card, and that was the problem. I asked numerous times for a monthly invoice to be sent to me and to be paid by the credit card, but they wouldn't do it. They charged my credit card every day that I sent shipments out, and because of all the charges is what messed me up.
"
In short, that money has already been used to sent people the product they already paid for. If you need to speak to me regarding the merchandise you purchased, then you can email me. I am not going to humor an underage kid like you on a public forum anymore.
posted on April 14, 2002 10:40:04 AM new
Good grief...... jb, before you tell half lies, I would suggest you make sure it's not something that all the world can see.
" I cancelled my EBay account" That is a bold faced lie. Do a search for your user name, and your old one and jbmotorsports comes up. In fancy red letters it says USER SUSPENDED.
As for having patience, some of the comments you left for your buyers was rude rude rude. You like to make the accusation that your buyers are childish or are underage bidders. You even accuse a fellow poster .......
I think you really ought to be REQUIRED by EBay or any other auction service to spend your money on removing negs from bidders you left neg feedback for.
You want to be in business? Better change that nasty attitude or you will fail every time. Grow up & think about what youve done. How many fraud claims were filed against you besides PayPal claims?
Hopefully PayPal keeps your money until the last second required by law.
posted on April 14, 2002 12:49:15 PM new
Face the facts, You lied on the feedback forums for all your buyers, You lied about ebay, you lied about paypal, and finally as Pez1960 clarified YOU LIED HERE:
"I wasn't suspended from EBay either. I had the account closed so a new one could be opened in its place..."
jbmotorsports Saturday, Oct 20, 2001 User Suspended not a registered user
EBAY SUSPENDED YOU, LIAR.
So whats up with you and calling people underage? Is this some sort of insult? Don't you understand it's only making yourself look worse lol, It just shows everyone one of the main reasons your business ran into the ground or whatever happened.
"I think it's pretty ironic how you can determine who paid in which ways"
I think it's more ironic how a business man of your stature would take legal action against a company who he used to defraud hundreds of people.
I am just a poster here, Don't flatter yourself thinking I would have purchased something from a person with such a bad reputation on Ebay, and such immature social skills.
You're a THIEF and a liar.
[ edited by NDawg on Apr 14, 2002 07:27 PM ]
posted on April 14, 2002 01:24:33 PM new
While I don't know the whole story and am not sure whether PayPal was the indirect cause of some of your negatives, your negatives to the buyers rude beyond what I have seen in recent memory.
[ edited by andrew123s on Apr 14, 2002 01:24 PM ]
posted on April 14, 2002 02:08:59 PM new
The negatives that he left were the same, childish bidder, fedex problems, and so on. However, that does not explain the wrong part sent or the dented ones. He still has not taken responsiability for the fact as the person running the auctions, it was still his responiability to get the customers thier products. He would not be getting slammed in this forum if he would do that from the beginning instead of blaming everyone else other than the dog for the problems with his auctions.
Also, all of his auctions were ended the same day and in mid auction. If you shut down your account instead of being suspended, you canceled a lot of auctions in about a 5 min period.
Also, when looking at his auctions, he never really states where is location is. He may have started off good, but then it fell apart. This may not mean much, but on some of the pictures he used, they look identical to a person selling on EBay that is a powerseller with a great FB rating. There are all kinds of flags here.
As for the problem with PayPal, when the complaint department looks to release an account, they look at everything including the FB back rating. When you have 77 negatives, they are going to worry about liability and making sure they are covered.
Your best bet, if you are still selling on Ebay, is to get a Merchant Account and do your business that way.
posted on April 14, 2002 03:00:38 PM new
you said fed exp messed up your credit card -every time they ship for you,they charge your credit card.
this is what most service or goods suppliers do with new accounts until you establish some credibility with them,only then would they send you a monthly invoice.
another way to avoid cc mess up is to take the items to a fed exp drop off place and pay cash or personal check.
posted on April 14, 2002 04:04:49 PM new
Or use a different credit card that is not linked to a specific balance. Thats your fault for not getting that under control and straight and as far as I can tell you are getting exactly what you deserve. NAURED and no pity.
posted on April 15, 2002 08:09:22 AM new
use a different cc for fed exp??
what is wrong with using some of your sales proceeds to pay for shipping,after all customer pays shipping??
all the MBA finance courses preach leverage-using other people's money to make money for yourself,that is nice if you know what you are doing and you are profitable else interest will eat away all your profit
posted on April 16, 2002 03:59:22 AM new
Here is another post by this guy. Notice how he does not say anything about his eBay rating in this post from www.resellerratings.com
Here is the link http://www.resellerratings.com/seller_info.pl?seller_id=1720
He should post the whole truth about his activities and not try to hide it under a half truth. In this case, he has gotten what he deserves and after talking to some of his customers, it is no wonder he is not in jail.
you deserve all you get