posted on January 27, 2002 12:17:56 PM new
Damon, what would happen if someone sent someone else money (let's say $500). Then, receiver of the money refunded the money to the sender, with your new refund button, or just by sending the money. Then, the sender took the money out of his PayPal account, closes his PayPal account, and then initiated a quality of goods chargeback for the 500 dollar charge that was already refunded. Would you just e-mail the seller saying 500 has been deducted from his PayPal account since quality of goods chargebacks are not covered by the SPP, even though he already refunded the money? How far does PayPal go when they look for reasons not to cover the seller because of the SPP?
posted on January 27, 2002 01:57:21 PM new
paypal seller protection program does not apply here-seller never sold anything to the buyer,if he does ,he will need to produce signature receipt since the transaction is 500 dollars,shipped to verified address.
if the seller returns the payment
by hitting the return button,there must be some audit trails showing they are related transactions.-,it could be internal paypal number or in some cases they will both carry the same ebay item number /yahoo number and description.
this could be a tactic from the buyer standpoint of borrowing money from his credit card issuer,get 500 dollars now,file a chargeback,if he loses,then pay later .
if he wins,then 500 dollars is the trophy!
i think cc issuers are getting fed up with too many chargebacks,they could cancel his membership.
posted on January 27, 2002 03:59:59 PM new
Even if the refund button is used, the credit card company might not look at all the transactions within the last 60 days to see if there is some related transaction. They will ask the merchant (PayPal) to provide proof of a refund. Damon, will you (PayPal) provide the proof of the refund to the CC company and not deduct the amount of the chargeback from the sellers account? Or will you just say the SPP doesn't apply since it is a quality of goods chargeback so tough luck? And what if the refund button isn't used (after 5 days, the money is refunded) and the seller sends the payment back by usuing a regular send payment transaction to the buyer's PayPal account? Will PayPal provide proof of the refund here (to the cc company) and not deduct the chargeback from the sellers account? Or will you just say tough luck to the seller since it is a quality of goods chargeback?
posted on January 27, 2002 05:05:47 PM new
why do you keep talking about quality of goods chargeback?
goods precede quality,first there must be a good,then comes quality dispute.
in your case,no good is shipped,it is a payapal payment war-i send you payment,you send me payment.
if the buyer who does a chargeback giving reason that he never receive the goods and he never receive any refund from you,then
if paypal cannot find any evidence that you have returned the payment ,then it will ask you to prove you have made shipment.
you can either produce proof you have shipped by producing a signature receipt to verified address or produce proof you have returned the payment-say a cancelled check made out to this guy or convince paypal a certain paypal payment you have made to this guy is for refund.
whether paypal will restricted your account pending investigation,damon can answer that-500 dolars is not a small transaction????
this is an interesting point,in business there is the purchase order number,invoice number,bill of lading number for reference,may be we should all be more cautious in documenting our paypal payments,checks etc to show what the payment is for.
posted on January 27, 2002 06:08:50 PM new
I am not saying the buyer should file or would have any reason to file a quality of goods chargeback. I am talking about what if there was a fraudulent buyer. This hasn't happened to me; I am asking it as a hypothetical. A fraudulent buyer would probably file a false quality of goods chargeback over another type of chargeback since he knows PayPal doesn't protect the seller from quality of goods chargebacks. So I'm saying... what if you already refunded the money. Would paypal ask you for proof you refunded him and then proceed and fight the chargeback with the proof of the refund? Or would PayPal just say tough luck, you're not protected. Damon would probably know the answer, I'll look tomorrow when he is working to see if there's an response.
posted on January 27, 2002 07:42:43 PM new
the fact that paypal does not get involved in quality/content issue is actually good for the seller,because if the seller ships a box of rock and paypal said we dont get involved,and if buyer uses his paypal fund to pay,then he loses.
of course these days,paypal buyer who uses his charge card to pay thru paypal will do chargeback via his cc issuer .forcing paypal to look into the transaction.
we will see what damon will say tomorrow.
posted on January 28, 2002 08:43:58 PM new
Thank you Damon for your answer.
(On another note: See, stopwhining, I asked a simple question, and I just wanted to know if there was a potential problem of PayPal just ignoring fighting chargebacks even when the amount was refunded. Damon provided me with a simple answer, saying no, this is not a problem, since yes, they do fight the chargebacks if they knew the money was refunded. It was a perfectly reasonable situation and users of PayPal should know what PayPal would do in this kind of situation.)
