posted on January 4, 2012 09:19:05 AM new
Paypal usually will ask the buyer to find an expert in the field and certify it is a fake or knockoff and then Paypal after verifying it,will ask the buyer to destroy the item,it has happened to fake tiffany,fake coach,fake porcelain figurines.
To send it back to the seller means it will show up again.
Feel sorry for the seller,he may not even know he is selling a fake !
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posted on January 4, 2012 02:46:18 PM new
Paypal has done that with small items,but guitar?
may be it is the automated Paypal response instructing the buyer to destroy the item.
What happens if it is the Great Wall or The SPHINX or Michu Pichu?
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posted on January 4, 2012 03:40:53 PM new
Every time I see this subject come up I cannot help but think that PayPal had better be ready to have the customer ship the item to my local sheriff's department because you bet I will want authentication on my end too!
I cannot see how it is possibly legal for PayPal to authorize the customer to destroy the item. Yes, fakes should be taken off the market and sellers who knowingly sell fakes should be prosecuted but that is why we have a legal system.
Simply turning over a verified fake item to the Postal Inspectors would probably result in mail fraud charges if not numberous federal charges so why does PayPal get away with this?
[ edited by LtRay on Jan 4, 2012 03:43 PM ]
posted on January 4, 2012 04:37:50 PM new
If you have the manufacturer certifies that this is not their Tiffany lamp,Coach handbag,Meissen monkey band,Rolex did not make this watch etc,then it is a counterfeit.
In Amsterdam,Holland,a special customs task force dedicated in confiscating container loads of counterfeits have the authority to burn ,smash or do whatever they please with the confiscated items.
In San Francisco airports,many customs workers take home Chinese sausage,Chinese beef jerky,Chinese smoked duck etc ,they share such spoils with tehir family at dinner table !
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posted on January 4, 2012 09:28:01 PM new
It seems a shame to have a working guitar destroyed when there are children in this country who'd love to have an instrument to learn. I'm just sayin'.
_____________________
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Wealth without work
Commerce without morality
Pleasure without conscience
Education without character
Science without humanity
Worship without sacrifice
posted on January 4, 2012 10:11:29 PM new
There were two threads about this on the EBay Boards but they both appear to have gone poof!
Here is a section of the PayPal user agreement where they state that if they deem the item to be counterfeit then the Seller will not receive it back...it will be destroyed.
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10. Your Liability - Actions We May Take.
10.1 Your Liability.
a.General. You are responsible for all Reversals, Chargebacks, Claims, fees, fines, penalties and other liability incurred by PayPal, a User, or a third party caused by or arising out of your breach of this Agreement, and/or your use of the PayPal Services. You agree to reimburse PayPal, a User, or a third party for any and all such liability.
b.Liability for Claims under PayPal Purchase Protection. If you are a Seller and PayPal makes a final decision that you lose a Claim filed directly with PayPal, you will be required to reimburse PayPal for your liability. Your liability will include the full purchase price of the item plus the original shipping cost (and in some cases you may not receive the item back). You will not receive a refund of your PayPal fees. PayPal Seller protection may cover your liability—see Section 11 (Protection for Sellers) below.
If a buyer files a Significantly Not as Described (SNAD) Claim for an item they purchased from you, you will generally be required to accept the item back and refund the buyer the full purchase price plus original shipping costs. You will not receive a refund on your PayPal fees. Further, if you lose a SNAD Claim because we, in our sole discretion, reasonably believe the item you sold is counterfeit, you will be required to provide a full refund to the buyer and you will not receive the item back (it will be destroyed). PayPal Seller protection will not cover your liability.
posted on January 5, 2012 08:17:04 AM new
Many Paypal rules are credit card rules,if you buy an item using your credit card and it turns out to be counterfeit,and you have a letter from manufacturer or expert stating it is a counterfeit,I dont think your credit card issuer will ask you to send the item back.
Ditto with returning an item,if buyer returns an item and the seller refuses,the buyer will automatically get his money back and keep the item as long as he has proof he has attempted to return the item and the seller refuses to accept it.
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posted on January 5, 2012 08:54:54 AM new
Can't believe this, but I was just able to purchase occupyeBay.org for 6 bucks.
I wonder if I could sell it on eBay???
LOL.
Seriously, this is one of those issues that bothers me. I have had some experience being on the seller end of a few claims like this.
One was a newbie buyer who purchased an item from me, waited 46 days to email me and then claimed the item was fake. I knew it wasn't because it was purchased directly from the Nike store here. I told them this, asked them to return the item to me and they never did. eBay blocked my account for 60 days from using the word "Nike" in my listings because of this.
The biggest problem facing sellers are the buyers who simply want a refund and will lie to get one. They don't care if it damages a sellers reputation because they don't see us as a small seller. They see it as eBay. How many people complain about a particular buyer or seller to the point that we name them? Instead we focus on eBay's name. The sellers have to stand behind the eBay name, which is a bit ironic.
eBay's system also doesn't consider the cut throat mentality of other sellers. Seriously, I have heard several sellers discuss strategies to get competition kicked off eBay.
The bottom line is that eBay and Paypal don't have an authentication service to verify claims, so they turn to the "eBay community" to deal with this problem.
This is no different than Craigslist, which is coincidentally partly owned by eBay. Anyone can report a problem to Craigslist. Nobody verifies the problem, they just remove the listing and send the seller a warning. I have had several items pulled from Craigslist for absolutely no reason other than one of our competitors abusing the reporting system.
Here is the funny thing... we know who does it because whenever they report it, they are stupid enough to also list items on Craigslist at the same time. The first time, we are suspicious, the second time, we are 95% sure, the third time we know without any doubt it is the same person. Portland is a small community of people and in our business even smaller. Things get very ugly here when people act out of line.
Here is a classic example of a dealer who moved to Portland, then went around town reviewing his competition on Yelp. To make matters worse, he reviewed his own business and gave it 5 star reviews. A bit of irony is that his business name was Janus Home. Janus is the two faced god. The guy has had to change his business name and move 3 times in 2 years because his reputation dogs him. This is one of his actual comments about another business he complained about that retaliated:
posted on January 5, 2012 11:18:50 AM new
The seller can also prove his item is authentic by showing provenance and expert testimony.
There is a seller called Thesaurusfinearts from Seattle,it sells Asian antiques and offer money back guarantee if you can produce letters from experts or have it tested by likes of Cambridge,off hand I dont recall the name of the test,but it is nicking a piece of porcelain or stone and have it tested in the lab,few places can do that.
Well,its items are too obvious to be antique and too expensive for most Ebay bidders,finally a Seattle newspaper exposed them and they just stopped selling on Ebay,back then listing fee for high ticket items can run into thousand of dollars.
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