birgittaw
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posted on April 1, 2006 01:08:07 PM new
Need quick help from you post card dealers: Real photo post card Butch Cassidy and Sundance Kid, found in old photo album from estate. Genuine and doesn't appear to be reprint. Friend wants to know if he should take $300 offer from fellow dealer at end of show tomorrow, or go on eBay with it? Did some googling, but didn't find anything appropriate.
I say take the money and run. His wife wants to list it on the Bay. Any input from your pc dealers?
TIA.
B/
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hwahwa
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posted on April 1, 2006 01:13:43 PM new
you can put a reserve of 300 on ebay and see what happens!!
/ lets all stop whining !! /
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tOMWiii
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posted on April 1, 2006 01:56:27 PM new
"Who are those people???"
"I think we are welcomed. But it was not a peaceful welcome."
—Philadelphia, Dec. 12, 2005, on the reception of American forces in Iraq
[ edited by tOMWiii on Apr 1, 2006 01:58 PM ]
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sparkz
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posted on April 1, 2006 02:17:18 PM new
Tell him to beware of that "fellow dealer". It's probably Neglus wearing a wig and sunglasses so no one recognizes her. She'll give your friend $300.00 for it and have it listed before sundown with a $1,000.00 BIN on it.
If Murphy's law is correct, everything East of the San Andreas Fault will slide into the Atlantic
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neglus
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posted on April 1, 2006 02:23:30 PM new
LOL. I would think your friend might do better on ebay but as you know, it depends on the RIGHT buyers being online and finding it...then there are FVF, NPB's and listing fees etc...the $300 offer is tempting. If your friend is a gambler, let him try ebay..otherwise a bird in the hand....a reserve might not be a bad idea. If it doesn't sell maybe he can contact the other dealer to see if still interested (I'll bet he will be). I only see repro Butch Cassidy cards on the internet though he was alive during postcard era.
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http://stores.ebay.com/Moody-Mommys-Marvelous-Postcards?refid=store
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roadsmith
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posted on April 1, 2006 04:13:27 PM new
Neglus: How do you tell a repro RPPC from an original? Is there a secret to it?
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neglus
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posted on April 1, 2006 04:38:33 PM new
It's hard if the repro is printed from the negative - usually the repro will not have the "right" stamp box on the back (for the age of the card). I use this guide for dating backs:
http://www.playle.com/realphoto/
For example a turn of the century view with a Kodak stamp box (1950 to present) is undoubtedly a repro.
I haven't run across counterfeit postcards but I'll bet as prices rise for some of them they will surface. Someone reproduced a bunch of Minnesota "main streets" from the photographer's negatives (Pearson) but did not attempt to use period backs.
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http://stores.ebay.com/Moody-Mommys-Marvelous-Postcards?refid=store
[ edited by neglus on Apr 1, 2006 04:45 PM ]
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BillsHobbyEmporium
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posted on April 1, 2006 08:27:43 PM new
Through the years I have seen phony postcards but they were done in recent years (1960 and later) and the counterfieter usually leaves some way out so that they can tell that it is a phony. There are many reprints though of cards and there are ways to date them as Neglus suggested.
Bill
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ladyjewels2000
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posted on April 2, 2006 10:50:19 AM new
Maybe Paul Newman or Robert Redford would like to buy it. I know in the movie they run photos of the real people at the beginning or end.
$300 sounds cheap to me but then I don't know very much about post cards. Did you search ebay for Butch Cassidy and Sundance Kid items to get a feel for the market for your friend?
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hwahwa
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posted on April 2, 2006 10:53:40 AM new
what is the condition??
/ lets all stop whining !! /
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neglus
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posted on April 2, 2006 11:00:42 AM new
I couldn't find ANY postcards like this anywhere. In reading up on the pair, I read that they robbed a bank in Nevada netting $32,000 then fled to Texas where they bought new clothes and then had their pictures taken to send back to the bank to thank them for the new duds. Lawmen used those photos to track them down.
Any chance those postcards are related to that? They certainly would be worth more than $300! Is there a name of a photographer ? What is the stamp box?
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http://stores.ebay.com/Moody-Mommys-Marvelous-Postcards?refid=store
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sthoemke
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posted on April 2, 2006 03:11:40 PM new
How old are the photos in the photo album?
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photosensitive
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posted on April 2, 2006 03:38:41 PM new
I suggest your friend show it to someone who knows photographic history. Original prints from the period have a "feel" that is not easy to duplicate.
-----o----o----o----o----o----o----o----o
“The illiterate of the future will be the person ignorant of the use of the camera as well as of the pen.”
Maholy-Nagy, Vision in Motion, 1947
[ edited by photosensitive on Apr 2, 2006 03:39 PM ]
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vintagepostcardsdotorg
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posted on April 3, 2006 08:07:43 AM new
if you can post scans of the front and back up for us to see, it might help. photosensitive is right - authentic RPPCs and postcards have a different "feel" - every repro i've ever seen and felt is on slightly lighter weight paper than originals are.
you can also find a lot of references here - http://www.vintagepostcards.org/reference.htm
http://stores.ebay.com/postcards-postcards
http://www.vintagepostcards.org
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birgittaw
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posted on April 3, 2006 03:43:32 PM new
Hello:
Thank you all so much for your time and thoughts on this. I have shared your comments with my friend, and so he has opted for doing more research -- at a show when you find something like this in an album, you can't always connect and do research on the spot.
The photo, part of an old album ca. 1895-1900, is glued into the book. Thus, we haven't seen the back where a photographer may lurk.
The live purchaser is a highly respected Civil War and historical memorabilia dealer. She knows her stuff, as does the seller insofar as paper is concerned, which is why the authenticity was not really an issue here. And the live buyer is frothing at the mouth and won't go away, so that's always an option.
I was particularly interested in the photo of the twosome in new clothes you mentioned. I hadn't found that reference, but will go looking.
One of my concerns is the inability of a potential eBay buyer to see and feel it. We will both be in Atlanta this week, so perhaps I will suggest another photographic authority for authentication purposes should my friend opt for eBay.
Since you've all been so generous with your time, I will keep you updated if there are any developments. I always personally wonder about "the end of the story" in cases like this.
B/
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pixiamom
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posted on April 3, 2006 03:58:54 PM new
If you can show a good scan of front and back and offer a 7 day return policy, I don't think you need to get the card authenticated. The dealer is probably offering a fair wholesale price but you can probably get close to retail at auction. Choice cards close as high on eBay as they do in any other venue unless they are poorly presented or eBay burps.
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mikes4x4andtruckrepair
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posted on April 3, 2006 04:15:42 PM new
"or ebay Burps" Well that would be rude. 
 Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein
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neglus
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posted on April 3, 2006 04:25:20 PM new
I think the Ft Worth/Winnemucca photo was of the gang and not just the two leaders. Turns out that the photo story may have been a myth - pinkerton agents may have sent the photo to the bank for identification.
In looking through Google images, I couldn't find any photos of the two of them. I think that they were rather obscure outlaws until the movie - not likely to have mass produced period postcards. It seems to me that a photo of the two of them if authenticated would be more valuable than $300!
Check out the Ft Worth photo on Google - are they wearing the same clothes? Perhaps this is another shot that Pinkerton didn't get a hold of! Where (what part of the country) is the album from?
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http://stores.ebay.com/Moody-Mommys-Marvelous-Postcards?refid=store
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vintagepostcardsdotorg
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posted on April 4, 2006 09:05:51 AM new
"The photo, part of an old album ca. 1895-1900, is glued into the book. Thus, we haven't seen the back where a photographer may lurk."
most of the time, a photographer's name is on the front, not the back. the useful info on the back is normally the stamp box. but since it's glued in an album, you're not going to get to look at the stamp box.
i'm still skeptical about the authenticity of this, and it seems that the provenance of the item is of increasing importance. as neglus mentioned, knowing more about the album's history and where it's from might be helpful at this point.
it'll be interesting to hear how it all turns out.
http://stores.ebay.com/postcards-postcards
http://www.vintagepostcards.org
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birgittaw
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posted on April 4, 2006 09:52:06 AM new
Found at flea market in Arizona by PA compulsive buyer who bought the album because it was neat, not because he thought there was something valuable in it (and knowing him, he rarely pays more than a dollar or two for anything). Enough people have looked at the image -- correction, enough knowledgeable people -- and I doubt highly that the frothing at the mouth potential dealer/buyer would have offered $300 if there were any doubt of age.
When you've handled enough of anything, most of the time you really just KNOW if it's real or not (note I said MOST of the time). Kinda like a Beatles song on the radio. No one has to tell you it's the Beatles, do they? (I use that with customers at shows when they want to know if something is new or old, for example -- works every time.)
Finally got to talk to owner, and suggested he check his image (which is in Atlanta while I'm in SC at the moment) against the group shot for attire and seating. I'm actually having really fun with this and I too am curious as to how it all will end!
B/
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