posted on March 18, 2005 07:49:44 PM
A bidder filed a complaint that said my item was different then what I sold. A bidder bought an x-ray unit for $1000 and he is in Sweden. Shipping was another $800.00. It was a large military unit. I had pictures of everything. Now he claims through paypal that it was not complete. But then he says that everything in the pictures was there. He also complained to me that it was an older unit (manufatured a few years ago) I believe it was buyers remorse. He sent me pictures of the unit he bought on e-bay just after receiving my unit. What is the possibility that paypal will protect me? Do they refund him everything including the shipping? It does not seem fair. Help!! He has bought 2 items and I have sold 2718 with only 3 negs.
posted on March 18, 2005 08:12:14 PM
There is no seller protection on international transactions. Since he admitted he received it, they may consider it an item not as described complaint and not get involved. In any event, I'd empty out that Paypal account now, and be ready to close it. Otherwise, you could very likely lose $1800.00 plus your machine.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
posted on March 19, 2005 06:38:45 AM
You can kiss that moola goodbye. This buyer can tap dance all over PayPal, call them names, shoot them and they still have to give her money back, right out of your pocket.
NEVER, EVER ACCEPT PAYPAL FOR INTERNATIONAL TRANSACTIONS. Good sellers prefer BidPay
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Alive in 2005
posted on March 19, 2005 06:56:29 AM
I feel sorry for you. If the guy is honorable, maybe he'll settle for a partial refund.
It has been said on these forums many times: international is BidPay or wire transfer. From Canada I accept Money Orders. That's IT! No exceptions (unless the amount is small, I guess).
posted on March 19, 2005 07:15:38 AM
It depends on how he complain to paypal.
If he said item not as described,then paypal will warn you not to be so naughty next time,they will tell him they dont get involved in item not as described (the only time they get involved is the installment plan deal where they take it out every month from his credit card and it has to be significantly not as described)
If he complains to paypal he did not receive the item,then paypal will ask you for proof of shipping aka online tracking which you dont have .But you have his email which shows he has received the item.
I think you are okay,he will probably complain to paypal item not as descrived,not item not received.
BUT he can also file dispute with his credit card company,then you will lose!
I dont know if it is common for europeans to file chargeback with their cc issuer,some may not even know they can do this.
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
No, he ain't "all right," because the PAYPAL SPP does NOT apply to USA SELLERS who shipped OUTSIDE THE USA...
REGARDLESS OF PROOF OF DELIVERY (if he had any), he LOSES if the buyer sqwauks to PayPal about non-delivery because he did NOT follow the RULES of the PP SPP...
ONCE AGAIN, CLASS: "What is your RISK TOLERANCE level?"
"There may be some tough times here in America. But this country has gone through tough times before, and we're going to do it again." ~ George W Bush
posted on March 19, 2005 07:35:10 AM
Thanks for the advice. I do have proof of shipping. It went with an air freight company and he picked it up at their terminal in Sweden. I tried to be nice and said to send it back and I would refund his money, but he wanted me to send it back and pay all his expenses and pay for his customs charges. He send me pictures of the unit he boughtthat was more to his liking within days of receiving my item.
posted on March 19, 2005 07:54:27 AM
I think Paypal will protect seller selling overseas if he can produce online tracking delivery confirmation OR documents from shipping co which showed shipping and receiving,if a HUMAN BEING is involved.
I know some sellers who ship EMS will furnish paypal with tracking number and win the case.
I dont know how the Swedish credit card industry work,I doubt if he will go the route of filing chargeback,you may want to work out a deal with him and pay for whatever it takes to make whole,if it is feasible.
Swedish customs,i wonder how much is that ??
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
posted on March 19, 2005 08:09:34 AM
Tom is not correct. He continually states that he does not ship at this level so I am a bit confused as to why he is making these absolute statements that he is making.
Here is the reality of the situation...
Since your bidder has acknowledged receipt of the item, the only way PayPal is going to honor a refund is once he has returned the item at his own expense and provided them with proof.
In fact, here is a sample of the email that you will recieve.....
A refund in the amount of xxxx will be awarded to the buyer (this includes shipping and handling) once eBay item number xxxxxxxxx, in original condition, are returned to you. The buyer is responsible for return shipping and handling costs.
Please reply to this message and indicate which of the addresses registered on your PayPal account you would prefer to be used to return the merchandise. If we do not receive a reply, the following address will be provided to the buyer:
Once your buyer decides that once they pay shipping, their intended scam is nowhere near as profitable as they once believed it to be they usually scrap the concept. With the high cost of your customer returning at their own expenses, I have a feeling you will be getting one of these in 2-3 weeks.
The claim has been closed because the buyer has not responded within the specified amount of time. No further action is required of you.
I went thru one of these a few weeks ago. (and getting ready to do it again with a previously mentioned Canadian). The text I pasted here is from the PayPal emails I recieved as a result.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it
[ edited by fenix03 on Mar 19, 2005 08:11 AM ]
[ edited by fenix03 on Mar 19, 2005 08:49 AM ]
What country was the shipping to in your recent example? I was under the impression that you are SOL internationally. PP seems to go out of its way to indicate that Seller Protection doesn't apply outside the US for a US seller.
posted on March 19, 2005 09:15:48 AM
Cash - That sale was to the UK. I have also had PayPal deny claims of non receipt when given tracking numbers on express shipments.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Mar 19, 2005 09:17 AM ]
posted on March 19, 2005 09:45:10 AM
Lets see - actual experience with examples or simple statement from master of inaccuracies... what to choose... what to choose...
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on March 19, 2005 12:40:58 PM
fenix is correct,first line of defense is automated tracking,if you provide paypal with a tracking number which can be tracked online and showed it has been delivered(which in the case of EMS ,it is),the automated paypal system does not ask further if it is intl or domestic,the case has met the criteria .
I doubt if the swede will file chargeback as he has the item in possession,in this country,you must return the item first,you cant get your money and keep the item at the same time,UNLESS the buyer attempts to return the item and seller refuses,then he gets to keep the item and get the money back as well.
I think the Swede learns an expensive lesson on buying used bulky big ticket item overseas .
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
posted on March 19, 2005 03:11:52 PM
Thank you so much for all your responses. This has kept me worried. It really helps to hear from people who have gone through the same problems.
I sell usually scientific and industrial equipment and have few problems as universities or the people buying, KNOW what they are buying. That is why paypal has been great for my international business. Now I have doubts as to accept paypal for overseas or not.
Your advice is appreciated. I will make sure that the on line information for tracking is send to paypal.
posted on March 19, 2005 03:30:23 PM
Someone asked what customs was in Sweden, and it looks like it is $861. I assume this since he asked me to pay him a total of $2661.00 for the item, and pay for shipping back (another $1100) Total $3761!!! Pretty steep for an item I sold for $999.
posted on March 19, 2005 03:51:00 PM
Prof. I do not think you legally can sell an x-ray machine. In fact if you purchased it and you are not a physician you cannot buy it. I notice many on eBay but I think if the seller that you bought if from is not a x-ray company or physician they cannot sell one. There is a disclaimer on x-ray machines about buying a selling.
I am not going to go into it anymore since your transaction is complete.
posted on March 19, 2005 05:38:11 PM
I think I screwed up what I tried to say. The person that he bought the x-ray machine from was maybe not an authorized dealer. But legally if he is not a physician or a licensed dealer he cannot resell it. I think that is what I tried to say. I went in and saw some had disclaimers on their auctions and one didn't have on but eBay let them put it on, or maybe nobody reported them. I am sure eBay doesn't patrol that. Oh well it was a trying basketball day but the outcome was great.
