camodog
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posted on March 18, 2005 08:58:37 AM new
Hi,
Well it finally happened. After 4000+ sales I have a CC chargeback. I sent to confirmed addy, delivery confirmation shows it as delivered and I am eligible for Seller Protection (at least I hope). I spoke to the carrier suppervisor for buyers PO and he thinks it was stolen. Buyer wasnt home and it was left on his porch.
So anyones guess if I will get my money back? I have responded to the chargeback with the information PP requested. I wonder how long it will take if I do get it back.
I was thinking maybe I should call the police in his town and report a crime now that I am the one that has lost $$$.
Any suggestions?
cd
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tOMWiii
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posted on March 18, 2005 09:15:59 AM new
Camo-pup:
Are ye mixing apples & oranges?
Was it a CREDIT CARD CHARGE-BACK, or was it a BUYER COMPLAINT of NON-DELIVERY to PP?
There is a bit of difference...
If BUYER COMPLAINT, then PP should find in yer favor...
OTOH, if it were a true CC CB, then I won't hold yer breath...THE MOST PayPal will do for you is NOT charge you the $10...
Was the item INSURED (PO or DSI or UPICNOSE)?? Remember, INS is for YOUR protection...
If DC shows delivery, and the pretzel-choker screams non-delivery, I'd send them an email explaining that you have had very good success in the past working with the POSTAL INSPECTORS during THEFT and FRAUD investigations, and that you're sure that they (yer pretzel-choker) will extend great cooperation to the POLICE and SECRET SERVICE and other assorted SPOOKS and WYATT URPS that will descend upon their heads just as soon as you finish filling out the SUPOENA PAPER WORK!
You'd be amazed...TIS A MIRACLE!
"There may be some tough times here in America. But this country has gone through tough times before, and we're going to do it again." ~ George W Bush
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stopwhining
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posted on March 18, 2005 10:08:35 AM new
How much is involved??
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
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camodog
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posted on March 18, 2005 10:21:15 AM new
about $100
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stopwhining
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posted on March 18, 2005 10:40:14 AM new
is this a chargeback or just paypal complaint??
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
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camodog
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posted on March 18, 2005 10:46:35 AM new
it started out as a complaint.....I responded and about 2 weeks later it turned into a chargeback and thats when my $$$ got put into a "temporary hold."
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tOMWiii
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posted on March 18, 2005 10:54:47 AM new
Ah!Ha!
"I see, said the blind man to the deaf boy as he picked up the hammer and...SAW"
Sounds like they first LOST their PP-complaint, so they escalated it into a CC CB!
Not much you can do except hope that the CC-COMPANY rejects the CB...if they don't, call the POLEZEI!
"There may be some tough times here in America. But this country has gone through tough times before, and we're going to do it again." ~ George W Bush
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stopwhining
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posted on March 18, 2005 11:00:18 AM new
dont waste your time calling police,police has better things to do than to figure why your buyer did not receive his package.
If he has filed chargeback with his credit card issuer,it hits paypal first and paypal should present your DC to show it has been delivered.
Most cc issuers want to see delivery signature,since you dont have any,you could lose the chargeback.
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
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Libra63
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posted on March 18, 2005 11:14:30 AM new
Was it insured? If it was and what I understand from my postal clerk, who is the postmaster, the postman shouldn't have left it at the door unless he had permission from the buyer. If the buyer has given him permission to do that then you should be okay. Insurance will not pay that claim and you are not responsible. If the buyer hasn't given permission to do that, the postman/lady should have taken it back to the postoffice and left the buyer a note about the package. I think then the post office is responsible. Good Luck and keep us posted.
_________________
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tOMWiii
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posted on March 18, 2005 11:14:39 AM new
Yo! SW:
Yes, there is a good reason to call (or, at least threaten to call) da FUZZ:
Often times, this is da impetus to force the pretzel-choker to magically and mystically "discover" the package in the hall closet where Hubby stuck it but (according to a bull-bush story yer about to hear) forgetting to tell the little woman...
Stranger things have happened (ask Al Gore)...
"There may be some tough times here in America. But this country has gone through tough times before, and we're going to do it again." ~ George W Bush
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stopwhining
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posted on March 18, 2005 12:52:19 PM new
It does not sound like the package is insured,else buyer and seller will be working on filing a claim with the post office.
It is now in the hands of the cc issuer-would it accept the USPS DC as proof of delivery?Most DO NOT.
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
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Libra63
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posted on March 18, 2005 03:31:44 PM new
Stop if the item is insured and the DC said it was delivered the insurance won't pay. I have had that happen and my buyer lucked out.
_________________
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stonecold613
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posted on March 19, 2005 06:22:42 AM new
Sounds like a pinhead left winger is trying to rip you off. Best thing for you to do is to try and contact the CC company and forward the delivery confirmation. Hopefully there is a non-democrat there that can straighten it out for you. If you get a lefty, you are screwed.
.
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Alive in 2005
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tOMWiii
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posted on March 19, 2005 07:37:35 AM new
Yeah! Yeah!
He needs a Pillar of Ethics, like Tom DeLay...or ex-Gov Rowland...or any other number of GOP scumbags ya wanna name?
 
"There may be some tough times here in America. But this country has gone through tough times before, and we're going to do it again." ~ George W Bush
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photosensitive
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posted on March 19, 2005 07:48:49 AM new
Stonecold, Would you be so kind as to point out how you recognized that the buyer was a "left winger"? I ask because, as a left winger myself, I did not see anything in the original post to suggest it.
-----o----o----o----o----o----o----o----o
“The illiterate of the future will be the person ignorant of the use of the camera as well as of the pen.”
Maholy-Nagy, Vision in Motion, 1947
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crossroadstrader
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posted on March 19, 2005 08:42:32 AM new
I have been lurking in the Vendio wings since this was Auctionwatch and there were moderators. There have been several times I had questions that concerned Paypal or Ebay and have had them answered before I even had to post a question. Thanks to ALL of you who try to help.
That being said, I think this site has become less useful to the general community because of situations such as this : The OP asked for any knowledge you are willing to share regarding a PayPal/CC Charge back issue. A couple have offered and tried to help. But EVERY discussion has become mundane and politically charged to the point the original topic is lost.
I do not care are you left wing/ right wing/ blue/red/ or are just plain purple or plaid while you are trying to decide, you do not help anyone by posting in that way. I have quit looking for my answers here for that very reason.
For the OP : I wish you luck.
Nuff said
Back to lurking
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camodog
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posted on March 19, 2005 10:57:54 AM new
Update:
Looks like my only hope is to convince the CC company to reverse the chargeback. Hopefully DC is enough proof but if not the carrier sup. for the buyers PO has agreed to fax me a statement claiming that the package was indeed delivered. I am faxing this letter and a copy of the PO receipt showing the cost of shipping, the weight and the DC#. How can I find out which CC company is involved. I wonder if it would help if I went to them directly or just to let PP handle it?
Thanks to those who have offered advice
cd
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Gtootie
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posted on March 19, 2005 12:12:57 PM new
I don't know anything about this and have never had to do it, but what about mail fraud? I have seen it posted on here several times that in a situation like this you can report them to the PO for mail fraud and that gets a better response than anything.
" Never mind looking for the light at the end of the tunnel. Run down the tunnel, and light the bloody thing yourself"!!
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stopwhining
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posted on March 19, 2005 12:28:35 PM new
camo,
the chargeback hits paypal,as paypal shows up as a line item on your buyer's cc statement.
It wont do you any good to submit proof directly to the buyer 's cc company as they wont know what it relates to.
so your only hope is to send it to paypal and have them submit them for you.
mail fraud ??
you can mention this to your buyer that the p.o. supervisor said it was delivered and so your buyer should try to locate the item.You have no proof this is mail fraud,your buyer could be telling the truth,if it is left on the porch.
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
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Libra63
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posted on March 19, 2005 01:03:14 PM new
Stop is right. The item which was insured should never have been left at his door unless the buyer gave that postman/lady permission to do so. If he did that then he is out of luck. That is what the OPer has to do is find out if permission was left.
If the package had insurance doesn't a $100.00 insurance require a signature?
The seller is not responsible once the DC said delivered and PayPal when notified that should reverse that. How does the seller know that the buyer isn't lying? It has happened.
Did the buyer know that eDC was on the package?
I will tell what I do. Most of my packages go with eDC. I do not tell my buyer that because many times I pay for it myself because the buyer has not asked or paid for insurance I do this just to protect myself from just this situation. I had a buyer say he didn't receive his item and I sent him the eDC. I never heard from him again. I know that might be devious but it keeps me from having to pay for an item not delivered.
Good Luck
_________________
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sthoemke
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posted on March 19, 2005 01:11:22 PM new
Important lesson #1: Delivery confirmation doesn't insure an item if loss or stolen.
Important lesson #2: Only accept PayPal from account balance (not credit card payments)
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stopwhining
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posted on March 19, 2005 01:30:55 PM new
Libra,
no one said anything about insuring the item for 100 dollars.
there is no insurance,just DC.
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
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Libra63
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posted on March 19, 2005 02:47:20 PM new
Stop. That sure is stupid. Why wouldn't you have the buyer pay insurance if the item sold for that high. Now the OP did not say anything about insurance so do we know for sure if it wasn't insured.
When I list my jewelry I also say S/H with insurance and I will not back down from that.
camodog was you package insured? Your postings never tell us. Was it first class or priority mail?
Would any one else here if the buyer didn't buy insurance, is there a seller here that would put insurance on it with their own money?
I will be the first. Yes I would and yes I have. And it did happen.
_________________
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camodog
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posted on March 19, 2005 03:06:25 PM new
No insurance on package...It was shipped via USPS Priority with DC.
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London4
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posted on March 20, 2005 05:11:59 PM new
I'm interested in the answer to this as well. DC may show the package delivered but doesn't show where does it? What happens if the buyer counters with the argument that the postal service must have misdelivered the package because he didn't receive it? It seems the only true protection would be a signature confirmation.
Will paypal and the cc company always accept dc even if the buyer says the package must have been misdelivered?
Regarding eDC, isn't there some indication that it needs to be scanned? Otherwise how does the postal person know to scan it? Wouldn't the buyer see this? This doesn't seem so devious.
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seyms
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posted on March 22, 2005 03:43:13 AM new
I've had this happen. The buyer's credit company doesn't care about evidence of delivery only keeping THEIR customer happy.
Your chances are very slight that they will decide in your favor.
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tOMWiii
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posted on March 22, 2005 04:31:54 AM new
seyms seys true...
"There may be some tough times here in America. But this country has gone through tough times before, and we're going to do it again." ~ George W Bush
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agitprop
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posted on March 22, 2005 01:57:36 PM new
camodog,
1. Contact their local Police and file fraud charges for "Obtaining goods by deception" or whatever they call it in that state.
2. Notify buyer that you intend to file Federal Mail Fraud charges against the buyer (and co-conspirator PayPal) with the US Postal Inspectors. Conviction results in mandatory Federal prison time with no parole.
3. Wait and see...
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stopwhining
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posted on March 22, 2005 02:45:43 PM new
and get yourself a BIG FAT NEG on ebay!!
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
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camodog
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posted on April 8, 2005 08:03:57 AM new
Just an update on this...Paypal got the chargeback reversed and the buyers CC company ruled in my favor. The money has found it's way back home and I think I will go buy my son a new baseball bat and glove with it!! Thanks for all the advice.
cd
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