posted on April 10, 2003 06:30:01 AM new
Boy... some days it's better if you don't get out of bed. At least there's this great board to vent to! Here's the situation... I had an auction for a new widget that I started at $9.99 (+$2.50 s/h). It ended on Thursday at $25.00 with about 4 interested bidders making multiple bids on it. I had more of these widgets... so I make a 2nd-chance offer on Friday to the 2nd highest bidder (who also had bid $25.00). Monday comes along... and the 2nd chance offer is within 6 hours of disappearing when I get this e-mail from the person I made the offer to:
Hello: I have tried twice to win this widget, bidding all the way to $25.00 I believe. As I am leaving on vacation in
two weeks, and don't really have the time to sit around and wait for the bidding to be over (remember I have been trying for months to get this item) would you be willing to just sell me this one for $25.00????
Please!! I will be awaiting your response. Thank you for your consideration of this matter.
So... I respond to him:
I would be glad to sell you the widget at
$25.00. I believe that I sent you a second-chance offer on Friday for this item. To purhcase this widget at the $25.00 price, just go toitem URL) and use the buy-it-now feature to complete the transaction.Once you have completed this, I will sent you an e-mail with payment instructions. If you have
any difficulties with this, please let me know and I will do my best to assist you. I look forward to doing business with you!
So... he goes ahead and does the buy-it-now and immediately sends me this message:
I will be sending you a money order today or tomorrow in the amount of $25.00 plus $2.50 shipping and handling. This way, you will have the check in your possession by the end of the week, and I will have the widget by next week as well as I am leaving for vacation and would like to have it as soon as possible. I will send a check for $27.50 right away. PLEASE SEND ME YOUR ADDRESS SO I CAN MAIL THE CHECK.
I send out my EOA notice. I didn't hear anything else from him until Wednesday night when I get THIS e-mail:
I have been notified by two other Ebay members that the widget you are trying to sell me for $25.00 plus S&H can be bought
NEW for $12.50 through "Joe's on-line discount widgets".
I think you are taking advantage of people by doubling your price of what this
item is really worth. I checked with "Joe's on-line discount widgets" after being notified by the two nice people on Ebay that I was being ripped off, and they sell them
everyday for $12.50 (exactly like your item).
I am retracting my bid. You can relist this item and see if someone else is not aware they can be bought for $12.50. I will not be buying from you. This is the last time I am bidding on Ebay - and was only my second time ever visiting Ebay, so I am not concerned about any negative feedback from you because I don't plan to purchase any more
items, I will now go to "Joe's on-line discount widgets" where people are honest.
Now.... this e-mail just blew me away!!! For SOOO many different reasons!!! So, I sent this reply (keeping it as professional and calm as possible under the circumstances):
Your anger towards me is highly mis-directed. I did nothing wrong. The auction
for this item started at $9.99 with a $2.50 s/h charge. This is MUCH less than you
would pay for the item at discount houses, such as "Joes discount widgets". I did not
price the item at $25.00. It was you, and other interested bidders, who drove the
price to that level. Ebay is an AUCTION venue. Also, if I remember correctly... YOU
contacted me after the auction ended BEGGING me to sell you one at that price. I only
did what YOU asked. Prices vary with the degree of interest in the bidders. Your
bid can not just be retracted at this time. By purchasing the item, you have already
caused my account to be charged final-value-fees. You also agreed to enter into a contract when you placed your bid. Either complete the transaction, or eBay will be notified of your breach-of-contract.
Not long after sending that note... I get another unbelievable reply from him! It goes like this:
I am not buying your item - PERIOD! I have already filed a complaint against you. I don't care what Ebay does afterwards....I don't care. I am not giving you $25.00 when you know that you caused it to be ran up to $25.00 and then YOU CONTACTED ME FOR A SECOND CHANCE OFFER - I caught on real quick, that you INTENTIONALLY caused the item to be raised to $25.00 and then your
first buyer backed out too! REMEMBER!!! I will be raising lots of eyebrows at E-Bay as I am filing a complaint for this very practice you did. I have 14 years legal
background and I know how to file Complaints, you see I do them every day for
my living.
SO.... this is where I've walked away from it. I have yet to respond to his last e-mail. (and probably won't). Obviously it's not true that I would shill my auction (I've been on ebay since '96 and have a nice solid rating of 2800+ feedback). The guy is definately a little on the crazy side (and I highly doubt he has the intelligence to be a lawyer!) I guess I'll just file my NPB and FVF. I'm probably not going to leave him feedback at all... because he'd probably just nail me with one back. It is really miserable that someone has the chance to slander your reputation when THEY'RE the ones that are crazy! Anyhow... let me know what you think of this situation... and give me any suggestions on what to do next, or any advice on what I might have been able to do to avoid this situation. Thanks!
posted on April 10, 2003 07:00:49 AM new
I think you answered your own question. File the NPB and FVF, block him, don't return emails and move on. Not worth the time. I agree that you will most likely get pegged with a neg if you leave one, so I personally wouldn't leave one. But I would make sure that you file for FVF since that is the determining factor for future suspension. It's crazy bidders like this that can make you dread opening your emails.
posted on April 10, 2003 07:57:27 AM new
eauction,
You did everything right. Whether the buyer contacted Ebay or not, he is making empty threats and doesn't show enough intelligence to be a succesful lawyer! If he was a practicing lawywer, he know quite well that breach of contract might put his bar status at risk if pursued. He's just making noise, blustering and trying to make himself right for doing something wrong and attempting to scare you away.
reddfoxx's advice is spot-on. The buyer is likley bluffing about never using Ebay again as well (too many good deals out there), but your choice about to neg or not is up to you. Definitely NPB and FVF. But first, read the below.
The bigger question is who is the Ebay user who interfered with the sale? Unless I'm wrong, they had to be an Ebay user to email the buyer and would have emailed their auction interference THROUGH EBAY. As far as I know there is no way they can get the buyer's email addy unless they are involved in an Ebay transaction with the other party in question.
The best tactic you have left is to let this buyer go, but unblock his email for a bit. Email him saying, okay, I understand you are going to buy from "Joe's on-line discount widgets". You might not want to word anything like you are letting him off the hook, since you may want your NPB filing to count toward him getting Naru'd and the reason "We both decided to cancel the transaction" doesn't count toward NARU, but you will still get back the FVF. But you can imply to him you areletting him off the hook. Get on his good side somewhat. (if that's possilble!)
Make some convincing excuse why you'd like to contact "Joe's on-line discount widgets" that does not involve anything negative like reporting them to Ebay. The ideal thing would be to get a copy of the email forwarded to you that "Joe's on-line discount widgets" sent the buyer.
The biggest issue here is that the other seller will continue to interfere with your auctions of this same item if he is not handled.
Try for that first so you can report auction interference. Be patient. You need to know who it is. The email the other seller used when communicating back and forth after the initial contact may or may not be the one he uses for Ebay. if it is, great. You can search for a seller using his email addy. You just might find whom it is that way.
After you get as far as you can on that, if you really want to spend time correcting the buyer, block the buyer's email again and report his offer to buy from you off Ebay after Ebay had sent him your Second Chance Offer. Hopefully, you still have that email and can forward it to Ebay. That will fix his wagon, and you don't have to leave a neg but might suffer one in return. You probably don't even need the email to report it.
But like I said, your biggest problem isn't the flaky buyer, it's auction interference that might continue.
posted on April 10, 2003 08:38:15 AM new
How does Patty always say exactly what I would have said, right before I say it?
I agree that auction interference is your real problem here. If you file for FVF (even in a non-fault kind of way) you're basically held harmless from any damages (except possibly negative feedback) because there was no listing fee. You also missed out on the chance to sell two widgets at what is probably a higher-than-normal price ... but you've probably already discerned that this guy would have been more trouble than he is worth.
The only thing I'd do differently from the suggestion that Patty offered is that I'd flat-out make a deal with this guy. You let him off the hook. He tells you who's messing with your auctions. Both sides agree to not leave feedback.
(Oh, and by the way, did you point out to him that "Joe" probably charges enough shipping and handling to make your price seem very reasonable?)
posted on April 10, 2003 08:46:10 AM new
naw, don't tell him that- let him find out for himself.
here's a question- does "Joe"s discount wigets" sell on ebay?
"And All Shall be Well, and All Shall be Well, and All Manner of Things Shall be Well"
posted on April 10, 2003 08:52:03 AM new
Thanks all for your comments! I agree with everything you've all said! I will file the NPB and FVF (although I have to wait until the week has expired to start the process!)
I agree that auction interferenc is the main problem here. But, getting the information about the 2 eBayer's who contacted him is probably going to be the difficult part. (first of all... I don't 100% believe that he was ever contacted to begin with). The second thing is... I'm not sure I want to enter into ANY further communication with him. If I did... I just wouldn't know what to say. If any one has a good response to his last e-mail that could 1) inform him of my intentions to file for fees and 2) extract from him the e-mails sent to him by the 2 auction interferers. I'm afraid that he's such a loose cannon though, that anything I sent would just set him off. I doubt it was actually the people from "Joe's Discount Widgets" as they are one of the largest (and fairly well-respected) discount-houses in my field. Anyhow... once again your comments are appreciated. And thanks for all your advice.
posted on April 10, 2003 08:54:27 AM new
Dragonmom,
Yes... they do sell on eBay... (as well as having one of the largest websites in this field on the web)... but, considering their reputation in the field, I would hope they wouldn't be participating in something like this!
posted on April 10, 2003 09:09:08 AM new
Buyer probably stumbled across their web site and just told that story to make themselves sound "justified"...
posted on April 10, 2003 09:24:10 AM new
It is good to know that there are sellers on eBay that can keep their cool. I applaud you for your pleasant email to a buyer that didn't deserve it. What I would do is go into and file a mutually agree to not complete the auction and move on, then you will get your fees back right away.
I don't think there is a way for another buyer to get another buyers email address unless your buyer is a seller. Ebay doesn't give out that information but I might be wrong as I have been wrong before
posted on April 10, 2003 09:37:18 AM new
If someone really did contact your bidder, then it's likely that they contacted others.
Use a different email address to contact some of the other losing bidders.
Say something like, you saw they were bidding on these widgets and you were wondering if they knew of or had been contacted about any other sources for the widgets.
They just might forward the offending email to you or if they tell you "Joe's on-line discount widgets" you can inquire about how they found out about the site.
posted on April 10, 2003 10:39:33 AM new
Just file for your fees, put this loser on your email and bidders block. There is no point in wasting anymore of your time on them as there is no way to salvage anything in this deal.
Once they have it in their heads that you are a rip off artist nothing will change their minds.
To even try just teaches them that blackmail works just fine. What I find amazing is that they bid on an auction and then complain when they raise the bid price. Just brain dead.
posted on April 10, 2003 10:59:54 AM newSO.... this is where I've walked away from it. I have yet to respond to his last e-mail. (and probably won't).
My advice is to keep walking. Don't respond. Any further responses from you may really convince him that you have done something wrong even though you haven't.
File for your fees. If you suspect auction interference in future sales then pursue those.
posted on April 10, 2003 11:14:43 AM new
Thanks again for all your responses. I think that I am just going to cease communications with this bidder. From his tone, I don't think he would do anything to help me report the users that are participating in Auction interference (even if they're not ficticious... I tend to think Twelvepole might be right!)
Libra63, Thanks for your kind support. Believe me... I did have quite a few other things I wanted to say... but better judgement kept me from saying them.
Greatlakes, I really liked your idea at first... but then thought better of it. The other bidders are still my potential customers (in fact some of the ones that bid are repeat customers of mine). I don't want to do anything that might deter them from looking at my future auctions.
Once again... thank you all for your support and comments. I will file NPB as soon as I can (but I WON'T do a "mutually agreed"... because I want this NPB to be on his record!), then I'll collect my FVF's and call it a wash. At least I've still got the item to re-list! (which I have and already have a bid on!) Thanks again for your help!
posted on April 10, 2003 02:03:11 PM new
[I]How does Patty always say exactly what I would have said, right before I say it?{/I]
I spend too much time here is all!
The only thing I'd do differently from the suggestion that Patty offered is that I'd flat-out make a deal with this guy. You let him off the hook. He tells you who's messing with your auctions. Both sides agree to not leave feedback.
Misincognito, excellent idea! I wish I'd thought of it. Seems so clear and simple!
Misincognito and Baylor, Thanks! I learned a lot as a buyer and a seller over the years, but especially learned a lot lurking here reading everyone's posts from time to time.
[I]Buyer probably stumbled across their web site and just told that story to make themselves sound "justified"...{/I]
I thought about that as well after I posted the above and he may well be trying to put the blame elsewhere. Like he finally got smart enough to do a search and developed buyers remorse and lied.
That's real compassionate of you. I disagree completely with your statement. The majority of the people I have dealt with in my SEVEN years on eBay, have been delightful to work with. I don't think that anyone should ever have to "get used to abuse". We can learn how to deal with abuse when it arises (which I think I have), but we should never "get used" to it.
posted on April 10, 2003 03:25:36 PM new
Compassion has nothing to do with it.
Simple logic will tell you that if you interact with enough of the buying public, no matter how sweet you think you are, you are going to run into problem people who do not care that you volunteer down at the senior center or help baby birds back into their nests.
It doesn't matter what you sell or what your seller policies are.
A certain percentage of the buying public is gone. Wacko. Nutjob City. Menudo for brains.
If you haven't figured this out after SEVEN (heh heh) years on eBay, well, I guess I just don't know what else to say. Your posts certainly sound like someone with little experience. Trading angry emails with a rogue bidder is something only a newbie or attitude queen would do.
--
"I'm thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said `I drank WHAT?'"
You'll notice that while I do ask for advice when I post my threads... I pretty much have a good idea of what I'm going to do in most cases anyway. I appreciate the input that is given by most Vendio users because sometimes they see things in a different light then I do. I AM experienced enough to know that I do not know all the answers. That is what is great about a community of shared knowledge, like this. I have been a member of eBay since September 14th, 1996.... and am probably one of the oldest eBayer's that post here. I have sold everything from pieces of paper to Forklifts. I am a well established power-seller in two different fields, and list between 300-500 items per month. I never "trade angry e-mails" with my customers, but prefer to keep my messages as calm and professional as possible, even under the worst circumstances.
Yes, in my seven years I have run accross some very crazy bidders... but I refuse to dictate my attitude in dealings to their small minority. If you get "used to abuse" then you will start to expect that every bidder has a potential for difficulty. I would prefer to believe that every bidder of mine has a potential for a successful transaction. I would much rather treat difficult people with excess kindness than treat kind people with harshness. Believe it or not... compassion goes a long way in business. Maybe you should try it.
posted on April 11, 2003 06:37:49 AM newI would much rather treat difficult people with excess kindness than treat kind people with harshness. Believe it or not... compassion goes a long way in business. Maybe you should try it.
My ex-partner is exactly like that. Kind, caring, polite and downright nice. This man does not have an enemy on this planet and no one has ever had an unkind word about him. He is known for honesty and ALWAYS smiling or lauging. Everyone that meets him loves him
After a while selling on ebay made him stop smiling. He quit selling on ebay and has never looked back.
He said it pretty well: Ebay can change you... good finacially ... bad personally
I have said it many times....Some categories have a higher percentage of problem bidders than others. Apparel is one those.
Some of you are lucky to sell in cats with cool bidders.
posted on April 11, 2003 08:02:59 AM newSome of you are lucky to sell in cats with cool bidders.
This is one of the smartest analyses out there, and can't be said too often.
You can't judge a seller who routinely posts in a "problem" category (like clothing, where I've had a few bad experiences myself - which is why I rarely list there any more) by the experiences of a seller in a dream category. Categories that attract young people are generally the worst, because - surprise! - they're less mature. If you ever want a little taste of hell, browse the auctions over at Laundromatic, which is set up to cater to teenage girls.
I am not saying that all young bidders are automatically evil, of course, or that full-grown adults are never flaming PITAs. I've had many good transactions with people young enough to be my ... um ... nieces and nephews, and the worst transaction I ever had was with a woman who was, by my guesstimate, about my own age. Well, OK, the second worst. The worst was a teenaged girl.
posted on April 11, 2003 02:27:26 PM new
Book buyers are usually genteel (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA), though I am careful to step cautiously in the college textbook area. The sight of an .edu email addy makes me cringe. And, it always cracks me up when a book buyer doesn't READ the terms of sale.
Oh! and quilters or crafters are a dream to work with. I only had one disturbed buyer in that category (accused me of taking advantage of her when I filed NPB). The rest have been great.
"Guy" categories like fishing and hunting stuff seem okay. But, I'm staying out of antiques. The few items I sold went to great buyers, but I had tons of problems from the other SELLERS. They would email me criticism of my pricing strategy, shipping costs, terms, EVERYTHING. Always with an offer to take the item off my hands at half the price. Yeah, right. The each got my "How very kind of you, but shove it" reply. Dang sharks.
posted on April 11, 2003 05:53:38 PM new
Tie buyers are terriffic. I have no problems with the men who buy my ties. No teenagers in this catagory.
In fact in the 4 years I have been selling I encountered only a couple of NPB. Can't complain about that. Jewelry is my main catagory then the ties, then hankies.
Hankie collectors are great also.
item URL) and use the buy-it-now feature to complete the transaction.Once you have completed this, I will sent you an e-mail with payment instructions. If you have
