posted on April 9, 2003 07:17:59 PM new
I think it is ridiculous that 0 bidders have the chance to steal from us over and over. Why? Because so many of us(I used to be) are afraid of a neg!
Let's stop them! Non payers should be turned in! Give them a neg, be a big girl and turned them in! If I get a retalitory neg, it eats my lunch, but I'd like to know somebody else had the same experience. I hate to turn people in, too, but I'd rather do it than give them a chance to bite you, too!
A few non payer alerts, a few negs is worth anything to keep these cheaters off ebay. I love ebay, myself. I don't find the fees too high. Where else could a person in Sunset, LA get thousands of opportunities for so little money?
Don't get me wrong, there are things about ebay I don't like -- the fact there is absolutely no place to plead to when you get a retaliatory neg, no convenient "contact us" area, etc., etc.
But for my $$$$ there is no where else I can advertise to potentially millions for so little $$$$.
BUT, let's neg, NPB & FVC those ##@@@@)))~! right out of our lives!
posted on April 9, 2003 07:42:09 PM new
Filing FVF refund is all it takes. 3 of those and they are out. The neg has nothing to do with the suspension process.
posted on April 9, 2003 10:19:18 PM new
Scout's honor, I have never received a neg from filing for FVF & I've filed many. You have money returned when you file for FVF it's worth it, but what do you get out of leaving a neg...nothing.
There is no control over negative FB, words like crook, thief, liar, scammer, etc are used, doesn't seem to matter if they are true or not. And how about that classic...I sent money & never received what I paid for...I'm running sort of a business on eBay and any problems I have are my business & I don't want any deadbeat to have their untruthful say & post it for everyone to see.
I don't know of any B&M stores that post a list of shoplifters or problem customers on the front door & give them space to reply, so why should I do it on eBay.
When eBay protects FVF filers & blocks deadbeats from retalitory FB I will neg every darn one of them, but not until that day comes.
posted on April 9, 2003 11:36:39 PM new
It takes all of 37 seconds to open a new ebay account, how will a neg stop them? I have a buying account, I don't care how many negs I get on that, negs don't hurt buyers. I don't check the feedback of my buyers, I have 160 auctions running right now, no time for that. What I have noticed is that when people are deadbeats, many times they are not the zero feedback people, but they have several and no negatives. Always file FVF's, leaving negs though won't do much, and I don't want one from one of these bozos
posted on April 9, 2003 11:59:29 PM new
It's not sticking my head in the sand, it's really...just what do i get out of leaving a neg, nothing except a moments satisfaction. I won't take a chance on a jerk that can hurt me more than I could ever hurt him.
I'm competing with other sellers & a good FB record is so important.
When you neg an NPB & receive one back, your not helping yourself, your helping your competition.
I have two negs & both responded to my response with an apology, but who is going to wade through my FB to see that. Anyone looking at my FB just sees those two negs. It would be nice if eBay would let a buyer just pull up negs, maybe someday.
But, you are right we each have our own feelings about NPB's & it looks like we aren't going to change each other's minds.
posted on April 10, 2003 03:55:44 AM new
I think that once you file for FVF, or even at the NPBA stage, no feedback should be allowed to be left by the bidder. That option should be blocked by Ebay, but only for the bidder. A simple solution to retalitory negs!
posted on April 10, 2003 04:11:59 AM new
The only neg I ever got was from a NPB and it was a retaliatory. I have left neutral saying: "Sorry we could not successfully complete our transaction"...what a weenie I am. I wonder if sellers couldn't make up a phrase to be left in neutral feedback that warns other sellers. Something like: "NPIH"
=nonpayer in the house or "RLCTANGTP" =run like crazy they are not going to pay".
posted on April 10, 2003 05:05:45 AM new
CBlev65252 you are correct. Also I wish ebays can prevent foreign bidders from bidding on my US only auction. There are some widsgets you can ship to their country, but more often than not, they bid on something that will cost astronimical to ship to them, and they in turn will leave you a neg for no reason, claiming over charged on shpping!
posted on April 10, 2003 08:50:39 AM new
Ironking: I stopped that by placing a VERY HIGH shipping total for international shipping.
Apparently those who cannot or won't read "I don't ship outside the USA" do read shipping outside the USA will be $25.00!
I now have "will ship internationally" checked, but No more international bids and no more problems. Until I added that to my shipping TOS and placed it in the "checkout" box where it is easily seen by all, I was getting one or two a week even though I had the statement I do not ship outside the USA clearly stated in my TOS.
As far as retaliatory negs:
I have 1 from my first month on Ebay in 1998...from leaving a neg. I have never left another one, but I do file FVF on everyone who does not pay. And, I have not received a neg for doing so. A couple even paid so I would remove the NPB status and they could be reinstated. That made me nervous as I was afraid they would neg me for causing it, but they did not!
posted on April 10, 2003 08:59:32 AM newCheryl, That solution is so tempting, but it tilts the scales way too far in favor of fraudelent and even borderline sellers. A very clever seller could run a long-term scam exploiting this.
Here's a scenario: I'm dying to have this antique widget, so I BIN at a higher-than-average price from a seller with good feedback and mail off a money order immediately.
Two weeks goes by. No widget. I email the seller. And get back ... a NPB notice.
I email the seller again. I get a block/bounce notice letting me know that they are not accepting emails from me. So I start frantically emailing eBay. Well, we all know how much good that does. I start a trace on the money order.
Within a week, seller has filed FVF and slapped me with a neg for non-payment. Two weeks later, I get the report back from the money order company saying it was cashed a week after I mailed it. (This is actually an unrealistic time frame; most MOs take months to trace.)
Because I know a bit about eBay, I check his recent history. He's got good feedback coming in steadily ... but leaves negatives for about 20 percent of his auctions. Reading the responses to those negs, it turns out he's been systematically ripping off one in every five customers and FVF'ing them before they can warn others!*
So here I sit: No widget, no money, a FVF "strike" and an undeserved neg that I can't even respond to. What can I do? NADA. The seller has ripped me off and gotten away with it. They get automatic 100 percent benefit of the doubt.
*(And if the seller is really smart, he doesn't even leave negs. That way, it becomes almost impossible to track a long-term history of ripoffs.)
If you think about it, the balance of power is pretty carefully calculated.
Sellers:
1) Can't choose their bidders (except in certain extreme circumstances or through bid cancellation)
2) Pay listing and FVFs (though the former is assessed anyway and the latter is recoverable)
3) Run a statistically small risk of fraudulent chargebacks/switched mdse./etc.
4) Suffer more than buyers from negs.
Buyers:
1) Can choose their sellers by reviewing feedback
2) Must send out payment before receiving any merchandise, and must use the form of payment specified by the seller.
3) Run the risk of never receiving merchandise.
4) Are at risk of, and have very little recourse from, a fraudulent filing of NPB/FVF which can get them suspended.
posted on April 10, 2003 12:23:50 PM new
I think the point of posting a neg on non payers is that it tells sellers (us) that this person probably isn't going to pay us either!
Does ebay post NPB & FVF? I realize they kick you off after 3, but that is 3 burned sellers!
I check feedback on buyers who haven't paid me to see if this is a recurring problem. Then I file sooner than I would on someone who didn't have this problem. I also block ALL non payers, whiners, etc. from my auctions.
I agree that ebay doesn't give us very many tools, but I wonder how much negs effect buyers. You only see their feedback rating, plus percentage on the auction page, and I am personally far too lazy to go check out their feedback before I buy.
I have found out the hard way that no matter what you do, you are probably going to get negative feedback. The first one almost killed me, and the second one infuriated me. I don't think either were fair, but I did respond, and it doesn't seem to slow sales down!
And while they can and probably do just get another ebay account, their addresses stay the same. Thanks to Vendio, we can check this out to cut them off at the knees!
Can you tell I am fed up with these non payers? I didn't force them to click on buy/bid, I didn't force them to confirm. If I could, I would (and try) to force them to pay or take the consequences!!!
Cheryl