posted on September 20, 2001 02:06:16 PM new
Not to sound heartless here...but
MANY of these employees in the WTC were covered by property insurance, life insurance, and most of their companies are vowing to take care of their families. This won't cover everything by any means, but it will cover the bulk of their needs.
Sure there were employees down in the coffee shops and stores that weren't covered by big insurance policies -- but more than enough has been raised here to help these families. And as for help -- this isn't a fund to pay off families for their loss. It should be to help families who lost their primary income(s) to stay afloat. Parents shouldn't get money because their child was killed and adult children shouldn't get money due to their parent's death. This money should be used to help meet real and present needs. Counseling, medical care, food, shelter, relocation, job placement, etc.
The government has already set aside billions of dollars for this goal.
No amount of $$$ will replace the loss of a loved one -- but this is not about replacing the "value" of a loved one, but meeting needs left by their void.
How many of us did this when only SIX died in the first bombing? How many do this when a single person is mugged and killed somewhere else? How many of you would take $20, make sandwiches, and pass them out to the homeless in your own backyard?
Yes, America is reeling and YES, this makes us feel good and feel like we are actually doing something. But is it wise for EVERYONE to be doing the exact same thing while other needs caused by this attack go unaddressed?
Right now, it would be best for people to NOT give away ALL their discretionary income to these causes. Right now it would be best to address the OTHER problem caused when our financial center was wrecked. Right now it might be better to go out and help support America's economy and get things back on the upside.
Buy that car, TV, clothes, videogame, whatever. Go out to dinner. Take a weekend trip. See a movie. FLY SOMEWHERE. Pump cash back into businesses that keep the living, working people of this country STILL working and still feeding their children.
But still give. Just don't give it all to one cause. Don't put all the eggs in one basket. The Red Cross isn't going to give any more to a family just because they have it. The fund will just sit there and enable the Red Cross to do what they do at a later date (which is fine, but not when that money COULD have been used to keep America from recession).
Sorry for this -- I've just needed to say this for the past week or so.
posted on September 20, 2001 02:17:25 PM new
I'm glad you said it!
I just have one point to add and that is that I hope people don't forget their own local food banks and programs. I know that my local food banks are having a hard time (partly because of the time of the year, but also because locals are sending resources out of state too).
Anyway thank you for saying what I have been thinking!
posted on September 20, 2001 02:18:50 PM new
peiklk: Very, very scarey! Once again, WE AGREE! I have raised this issue in other threads and been both mildly supported and viciously lambasted!
My total take on the ebay $100Mill/100 day thing was for them to become the "biggest splash in the corporate pool" without regard to how it would be needed, used, or affect the buyers & sellers.
And (unless I am completely confused!) they are crawling in bed with the United Way....the biggest ABUSER of contributions in America!
Help where it IS needed....and let's NOT forget the help we all need in our own backyards!
posted on September 20, 2001 02:24:31 PM new
I agree with the thoughts in this thread (so far).
But I wonder about the insurance coverage. If this is indeed officially an act of war, then don't those insurance policies have a very specific EXCLUSION for this contingency?
posted on September 20, 2001 02:31:43 PM new
The major insurance companies already came out said they would pay.
They had a whole big thing about it on CNN a few nights ago.
posted on September 20, 2001 02:32:31 PM new
I had seen a story about the insurance issue on CNN... here's the online version.
Few people would have such exclusions in their policies, he said. Insurance companies "stopped putting them in their in the 1970s with the cessation of the Vietnam War,"
posted on September 20, 2001 02:37:35 PM new
Good Grief.......
I'm shocked that many of you will type the words that I am reading today, let alone think them.
There are over 5000 innocent human beings buried in the rubble of the Twin Towers....Hundreds of them were police and fire persons responding to the tragedy, those that selflessly put their lives on the line to save human beings.
Thousands of human beings are recovering from the injuries they sustained when TWO SKYCRAPERS fell down around them.
Hundreds of thousands of HUMAN BEINGS will have to deal with the after affects of dealing (psychological damage) with what they witnessed for the REST OF THEIR LIVES... Humans that had to witness, with horror, in real life, Two commercial airlines fly directly into office buildings filled with thousands of people. The long term suffering that those people will also feel is beyond anything that we will ever be able to imagine.........
Those of us not directly involved in this tragedy need to give until it hurts and then give a little more, because no amount of money will ever be enough to help those poor souls.
I'm shocked that anyone could think that there is too much money being collected for this... Where is your compassion and your empathy?
posted on September 20, 2001 02:39:38 PM new
Look at the flip side of it....would YOU want to be an insurance exec of ANY major company and have the 60 Minutes team or CNN camped in your lobby asking if it were true that you WEREN'T going to pay off on a claim?
I don't think we will be seeing ANYONE trying to enforce any exclusions that may exist in policies!
posted on September 20, 2001 02:40:19 PM new
ashlandtrader: YES! This is our church's month to help our local one. I hope we don't let it slide in the haste to help elsewhere!
thepackratsattic: I have the feeling we're not all that different 100 days is really going to tear into the Christmas season -- but I think sellers are not going to continue to offer items for AFA once they realize that giving perhaps $5 free shipping per item is really cutting into their income. One person said they were able to "give" $300 because they sold these items. Well, if the items sold anyway, they could have STILL given the $300.
packer: EXACTLY!!! Who is making decisions? Will the Red Cross exempt some of these stock brokers because they made too much money last year?
icyu: In a shocking twist, the insurance companies sought a way TO pay these claims and not get out of them! They ruled that depsite the words the media was using, this was an act of terrorism and not an act of war -- as such they will be paying! Praise God for small miracles!
posted on September 20, 2001 02:51:11 PM new
I heard on the news this morning that all the families who lost someone from the WTC attack, will get to go to college for free, and I guess any college of their choice.
When I first heard that this morning, my thought was, many, if not most of the people who worked in that building probably had a very good income and could easily afford to send their kids to just about any college. And like Peiklk said, the insurances will cover probably everything they would need.
Now these people who lived quite well to begin with, will be getting to go to college for free.
And then there are others out there who are hard working, can barely make ends meet and have a hard time getting a LOAN to pay for their college tuition.
Just seems ironic. Like I've heard before, "the rich get richer....."
Now, I am in NO WAY saying these people should not get help (whether it be money or otherwise). I think what happened to these victims of the attack & their families was a HORRIBLE tragedy and I feel very bad for them. It's just the college part that I heard today that kind of struck me as a little "too much".
posted on September 20, 2001 02:51:54 PM new
igolf: Where is your compassion and your empathy?
I showed it in the FIRST message in this thread. I am full of compassion and empathy. But I am also filled with reason and common sense.
Perhaps, by your reckoning, we should just everything we have and give it to the Red Cross? After all there cannot be too much money in this fund, right? Right? Let the entire nation fall apart for the sake of 6000 dead? Good call.
Again, if you read what I wrote, I strongly urge support for these 6000 and their families. But not every loosely connected "claim" that might come of this.
Those who stood outside blocks away and saw the plane hit the building WILL get over it. They don't need humanitarian funded counseling.
posted on September 20, 2001 02:52:01 PM new
igolf says...
"no amount of money will ever be enough to help those poor souls."
Thats correct, its going to take a heck-of-a lot more then money to recover from this.
You talk like these people in this tragedy are the only ones that has ever suffered or seen first hand a life threatening trama.
Lets be fair...I'm sure there are many stories out there with heroics such as this.
And as you say igolf "no amount of money will ever be enough to help those poor souls."
I'm not saying it not ok to give, it certainly is, but why should we have to give till it hurts us.....
Hell.....then we'll all be in therapy and we can make all the shrinks RICH!!
posted on September 20, 2001 02:53:58 PM new
I'm pleasantly surprised at the lack of cynicism expressed here about the soft-hearted insurance companies' behavior and motives.
Hope you're right a few weeks from now when the evidence is in.
jgolf: Being skeptical about ebay, the United Way, or wahtever doesn't preclude one from having compassion and empathy. I think it's time you took a nap and get some fresh perspective
posted on September 20, 2001 02:55:38 PM new
agree also,
I have alluded to this in various other posts in other threads Yes people died and yes that is a tragedy but at the same time how many abused children die a year how many people die of cancer a year? Jerry Lewis had his yearly telethon shortly before this happened for Jerry's kids I didn't see everyone falling over themselves to help that cause or the others that I mentioned as well as many others. I didn't see ebay or other companies clammering to get involved, and you have to question why did ebay or other companies not get so involved? because there wasn't the mass media exposer? I'm sorry also and don't mean to sound heartless but dare I say has this particular charity to help victims of WTC become Trendy???? it's the in thing to do, or is it because of again the mass media surrounding it. Yes, there are a lot of other charities that are still there that are not Associated with WTC that still need help as well and they seem to have been forgotten.
Also I agree to not put all of your eggs in one basket and believe that one shouldn't ear mark all of their discretionary income to one place. Give some to WTC Charity's, give some to another totally separate charity of your choice, and spend some. Put it back to the economy, by doing this people will also be helping America and there fellow American's by perhaps limiting layoff's keeping that small Mom & pop store from going out of business and by keeping our economy healthy.
posted on September 20, 2001 02:56:58 PM new
igolf: Read your OWN words: "....no amount of money can help these poor souls."
But yet we are expected to BLINDLY continue to send money (when even the Red Cross has said 'Hold Off'); help make Meg look good with AfA; phone in MORE $$$ tonite with the network/Hollywood fundraiser; etc., etc.???
SOMEWHERE during all of this senselessness of the attack and the helplessness that we feel, we MUST grasp ahold of reality and recoginize that life is still going on around us!
SOMEHOW, we must grasp reality and realize that our economy is not overly healthy, and those of us not DIRECTLY affected by the NYC & DC tragedies need to do OUR part...and personally I don't believe that to include supporting UNRESTRAINED, BLIND donations of seemingly never-ending proportions!
When eBay & United Way jointly announce they will set up college funds for EVERY child of EVERY lost firefighter & police officer with EVERY AfA dollar ....THEN I will rethink my position!
In the meantime, I will continue to question the validty of untold millions of dollars being sent to
organizations who have yet to tell ANYONE how all this charity from America will be used!
posted on September 20, 2001 02:58:49 PM new
Such a large loss of human life is always tragic - not to be demeaned in any way. I don't think anyone who has posted here wants to make light of the situation but we do need to ask, when have we done enough and are we doing the right thing?
Our economy is slowly going down the tubes. Yes, this often happens during tragedy and then we rally but this is like something we've never seen/experienced before. Even the best financial analysts don't want to predict our future now.
We are so focused on giving to those in need that we are forgetting that our country is virtually suffering from a gaping wound - a *death* we CAN prevent! Yes, it sounds dramatic but may become very serious. Our economy is begging for help!
Thousands are losing their jobs each day because we have stopped traveling, stopped buying, feeling guilty for buying, are unsure of our futures, etc.
My point? The terrorists have turned us into our own worst enemies! They don't need to continue to hurt our country(financially, etc) because we, in our fear, will do it ourselves.
Someone on one of the boards I visit said she would only buy Auction for America items - another poster pleaded with her to reconsider. So many sellers rely on ebay for their living and they, although a small group overall, help keep our economy moving!
In this time, we need to mourn the lost, help the survivors AND make sure our country and it's remaining citizens survive economically!
posted on September 20, 2001 03:19:43 PM newIn this time, we need to mourn the lost, help the survivors AND make sure our country and it's remaining citizens survive economically!
I hope this includes the over 41,000 people who lost their lives in traffic accidents last year in the U.S. That's 3500 people permonth. Noone looks at those stats since they die only 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 at a time. I dare say that there was not nearly the current outcry when even the USS Cole was bombed. Why does it take mass damage for this amount of response and then we are daily reminded about how great everyone is to give. Why does it take instantaneous video coverage to bring awareness? What about the rest of the year? What about the highway casualties? What is their monetary compensation from the government?
I'm concerned about the loss and recovery in New York. I'm concerned about what future loss and recovery we will face if this mayhem continues. Being in and having friends in law enforcement/firefighting, I know how this touches so many and at one time. However, people need to remember, that death occurs on our roadways daily.
posted on September 20, 2001 03:27:42 PM new
<<<There are over 5000 innocent human beings buried in the rubble of the Twin Towers....Hundreds of them were police and fire persons responding to the tragedy, those that selflessly put their lives on the line to save human beings.>>>
Yes, that's true but again how many people a year die of cancer, how many children die a year from abuse, hunger & neglect, How many people all over the world have died in hurricanes, Earthquake, tornados or have just plain starved to death. Are these people any less worthy of our help & concern?
Yet when these events happened even though there were many people that wanted to help and did help there was never the amount of concern, Money or Company interest that there is for this and again I ask Why???
The way you make it sound is if this was the first time any innocent people lost their lives in a tragic events, Hate to tell you it's not the first time. Do you think it's any less tragic for a child to loss his mother or father to cancer, or to loose them in some other horrible event?? No, it's not. I think people need to get a grip and remember that there are other causes out there that need your help & Concern Equally all year every year and not just when media tells you to help or when it's fashionable.
I also think people should be concerned about our economy as everyone is falling over themselves to give until it hurts how many are loosing jobs how many will lose jobs
because no one was putting money into the economy. Let me ask all that are giving until it hurts will you be there to help the families that lose there houses to foreclosure or evicted because they cant pay there rent or can't feed themselves when they loose their jobs and cant find another.
This is a very possible scenario if we continue to not spend and not put money into our economy to pump it up.
posted on September 20, 2001 04:19:51 PM new
I have wondered about who/what would coordinate all the relief funds. Just about every website I have been to lately has a diddy about donating. Many banks have set up accounts where you can dontate funds.
Red Cross keeps coming up. How will they decide who gets what?
United Way comes up, (I have a personal dislike because they have such high "administrative" cost and do not "spread" their funds equally) how will they decide who gets what?
There are even international funds being set up for the victims. Who will coordinate those?
The Federal Government has set aside funds.
I could go on, but I think I've made my point. This is an enormous undertaking by many many people, agencies and organizations, but I have not seen anyone say WHO is coordinating these efforts!
Reminds me of a story my Dad told me. When he was young (depression time of course) there was a wonderful lady of means who worked very very hard at collecting clothes and household goods for the "less fortunate". She was very good at getting people to give. She had her heart in the right place, but she didn't really have any plans on how to see who got what and it turns out she ended up with her entire upstairs loaded with donations, but didn't really know how to go about giving it out!!!!
She wasn't sure how to determine who really needed it. Did she just hand it out to anyone who asked? Did she wait for referrals from churches and organizations? Would the ones who really needed it get it? Would some be to proud to ask?
Bottom line, very little every made it into the hands of those who could have benefitted.
I just don't want to see something similar happen here. Not just the people inside the towers were impacted. There are people who escaped unharmed, but have no place of business to go to. Many buildings around the towers were damaged also and they too have been displaced. We know the ones who were victims need help, but how many more affected directly/indirectly as a result of this will need help too? I doubt they just hand out donations to anyone who ask!
I also would like to encourage everyone to not forget there are tragedies every day somewhere. Many many fellow humans need our help everyday somewhere. We are drawn to the victims of NY/DC, quite naturally, but they are not alone in their needs.
posted on September 20, 2001 04:52:22 PM new
I think I remember in another thread that someone had put up $300.00 worth on the AfA auctions and wanted to comment wouldn't it been a little more productive if people lets say if they want put up (I am only using this amount as an example it could be any amount) $100 in AfA auctions put the other $200.00 in regular auctions and then take the $200.00 earned from Regular auctions and give $100 to another separate charity (Cancer Foundation, Batter women's shelters Ect.)and then take the last $100 and go out see a movie have dinner, go out and spend it on something or spend it on another sellers auction thereby that seller can do the same thing or help to feed his or her family. and of course if you don't want to do the AfA auctions take that $100 out of regular sales a directly donate it to the WTC Charity's. By doing this wouldn't we feel even better that not only did we help in the WTC Tragedies, but also helped other charities separate from WTC and helped the economy or a fellow ebayer to feed there families. Could this work???
[ edited by Dawna34 on Sep 20, 2001 04:54 PM ]
posted on September 20, 2001 04:55:05 PM newI'm shocked that anyone could think that there is too much money being collected for this... Where is your compassion and your empathy?
iGolf, So how much money will make these families whole again?
$ 10K per family?
$100K per family?
$ 1M per family?
$ 10M per family?
$100M per family?
Pick a figure.
By my rough estimates, if there were 6,000 families who lost a loved one, and if we as a nation raise $600M to go *directly* to those families, that works out to $100K per family -- in addition to the free college educations and the money from FEMA and private insurance.
And how many eBay sellers should file bankruptcy to provide this money to the families?
posted on September 20, 2001 05:31:41 PM new
I agree..how much money does the red cross need and where is it going? We have always given to the salvation army and will continue to do so. I seen a salvation army tent down there at ground zero so they must be out there also.
I am also one of the viet nam vets that came home from a war that killed 10 times as many young american men as was killed in new york and we never seen a flag flying for us or any giant assistance programs.
posted on September 20, 2001 06:15:25 PM new
ICYU- How much have they spent for civil war,WW1,WW11,KOREAN VETS? The answer is not enough..the poor whites,blacks and hispanics fought the viet nam war. I did'nt have money to go to college..the guards were full of people like bill clinton and other people chose to go to canada.
If you think agent orange is a big scam thats fine with me. by the way, i get 645.00 a month for injuries sustained in viet nam. My body isn't 100% all there like the people that went to canada or college or the reserves. I suppose thats another waste of money.
posted on September 20, 2001 08:04:51 PM new
Oh, icyu, you hit a nerve, you really hit a nerve with that last remark.
You think Agent Orange was a big cash cow for VietNam vets? I only wish you could have seen my brother just before he died. It took months for him to die, and near the end he looked more like something out of a monster movie than my big brother.
Think the government spends too much on the veteran's in general? It's no mistake to say that a lot of money goes into the Veteran's Administration... but you're crazy or just not paying attention if you think the vets are getting hand outs. If there's a vet who's getting medical care, it's because his/her problem is service-connected, and if a vet is getting a pension, it's because he/she lost some portion of their bodily function to a service-connected injury or illness.
Veebee, my heart's waving at you right now.
As for the donations, charities, etc... I can't help wondering if there will be enough left for the next incident. I can't shake the feeling that this attack was something like the beginning of a bad dream for us all.
We're all just doing the best we can, I don't think we have to feel guilty if we have limits to what we can give away. "Each according to his means; each according to his needs."
posted on September 20, 2001 08:33:42 PM new
veebee and you others:
Get it right. I am challenging that ridiculous statement that the Vietnam-era vet hasn't gotten "any giant assistance programs". (I note that none of you has contested the $100,000,000,000+ figure.)
Of course combat-related health care and longterm assistance are justified, and I'm pleased that some my tax dollars are used to fund those programs.
As to the AO contoversy: The science for it is weak to non-existent (right up there with silicone breat implants or electric power lines causing cancer). But the political muscle of the veteran's lobby and hungry lawyers proved overwhelming.
arewyn: I wouldn't presume to comment on your grief.
Now, let's get back to the topic, which is a long way from Vietnam...
100 days is really going to tear into the Christmas season -- but I think sellers are not going to continue to offer items for AFA once they realize that giving perhaps $5 free shipping per item is really cutting into their income. One person said they were able to "give" $300 because they sold these items. Well, if the items sold anyway, they could have STILL given the $300.
