posted on September 20, 2001 07:54:34 AM
Here's my problem with this thing.
Don't take me as being greedy -- but essentially WE, the seller, are donating the final cost of the item to charity. But who takes the writeoff? The buyer? Shouldn't, because they receive goods for their "donation". Us? Not sure, since Billpoint/eBay is actually sending them the money. It's techincally OUR donation, yet eBay is taking it from us and giving to United Way.
Which is another thing.
What if you don't like United Way? I'd personally rather donate all or part of my auction MYSELF to whatever service organization I see fit. Red Cross, victims' families, etc.
One more thing -- we're also DONATING shipping on these items. Covering it free of charge.
posted on September 20, 2001 08:00:47 AM
You want well thought out from eBay? That must be an eBay I haven't heard of.
I don't like United Way for a number of reasons.
I don't use Billpoint and won't be coerced into doing so.
feeBay is using its sellers to gain glory for doing nothing except passing money from one hand to another.
They did this during xmas season. Retailers traditionally make 90% of their money this time of year - what do they think their sellers are?
I've been angry with eBay before, but this is the first time I've ever hoped they just curled up and disappeared. I'll make a living with or without them - in fact, the way they're conducting business, without them sounds better and better.
posted on September 20, 2001 08:02:08 AM
Well, I think it was well enough thought-out as far as eBay benefiting from it! As for our (the sellers) interests, I don't think there would have ever been any concern as to the sellers. eBay will make money on interest collected and on Billpoint enrollments for future income for them as well. That's where their concern begins and ends.
And PS...I also agree that United Way is the worst possible place to donate if you care about the donations actually reaching the needy!
[ edited by Triggerfish on Sep 20, 2001 08:03 AM ]
posted on September 20, 2001 08:27:12 AM
I believe the problems have not yet begun. I looked at several items in AFA. Everyone states bidder to pay shipping charges. Some even state PayPal and other payment types.
I think alot of sellers just did it....NEVER READ A THING! (Sounds like what alot of sellers say about the bidder).
When this is over I do not think ebay will be happy, the sellers will be mad, the bidders will be mad and who knows how this will all fan out. Sure looks messy to me!
posted on September 20, 2001 08:58:57 AM
The more I read of this fiasco the more I realize that eBay apparantly doesn't give a rat's rump about the uproar they have created! You would think with ALL of the message boards and threads going on, the "powers-that-be" would be doing some damage control before this gets TOO far out of hand!
Heh Meg! Even Jerry Falwell realized he had swallowed his foot last week and has attempted to make ammends! When are YOU going to surface??????
posted on September 20, 2001 09:40:31 AM
I wonder how many sellers will also pop for the insurance fees? Insurance often costs much more than the postage. When the stuff doesn't arrive, who is responsible: Seller? Ebay? United way? Bidpoint? USPS? The insurance fairy? I had considered trying to join in, but I just cannot handle the expenses and hassle. Sorry, Ebay.
posted on September 20, 2001 09:50:53 AM
I just noticed the nice box of info by ebay with the description and rules for A4A. All they need to do to solve the S&H questions and problems is add to that box:"Seller pays all shipping, handling and insurance fees." This is yet another perfect example of easy fixes to serious problems being ignored. It is hard to conceive of ebay not rushing that text into that box long before now.
This is a quote from the news article above entitled " eBay Charity Efforts Draw Cynicism, Complaints"
"....eBay spokesperson Kevin Pursglove told the E-Commerce Times that "when you are a company the size of eBay and in the media eye, there are always people who will question your motives."
ebay is going to do whatever ebay wants to do. Mr.Pursglove has made it clear that ebay believes it is the 800 pound gorilla.
posted on September 20, 2001 11:26:19 AM
Read the article and was amazed at the comment that ebay worked all weekend trying to get around the shipping problem. Well, I can come up with several different ways around it and have seen many other posts on various different boards that have suggested ways around it. So, that leaves me to wonder either how hard they really worked or cared about this problem. Or lets face it their thinking capabilities in general.
posted on September 20, 2001 12:48:40 PM
No, rgrem doesn't suggest that. Yes he got carried away, but the s & h notice should be there as well as down by the bidding section (where it already is). But perhaps seller should be reminded somehow that they are totally responsible for delivery, just as with any auction. Thanks for the correction.
posted on September 20, 2001 12:52:11 PM
We donated $300.00 as a company to red cross
2 days after, (on american express and dirrect over the phone)
I wont be able to participate, because I wont take Billpoint, and I too dont like United way, guess it was a great and noble idea in theory, but the outcome was different....
Sad, since the money and help was and is needed so much...
posted on September 20, 2001 01:26:58 PM
rgrem: "But perhaps seller should be reminded somehow that they are totally responsible for delivery, just as with any auction."
I hope you're not saying what your words mean. I (and many sellers) are NOT responsible for delivery "just as with any auction". We offer insurance at the BUYER'S discretion -- and do not insure or guarantee every shipment after it's left our possession.
Again it SOUNDS like you're saying that the many sellers who handle transactions this way should be required to handle them a different way for AFA auctions.
If I were to do one, I would ship the cheapest way possible, and NOT insure the package -- it's STILL a regular transaction. It's just that all my money would be going to the evil United Way. And the post office.
So basically, insurance would NOT be provided UNLESS the buyer paid for it (as a separate transaction or something).
posted on September 20, 2001 01:27:51 PM
I am hoping that after the first batch of messes, buyers will shy away from A4A auctions. I truyly believe that sellers will.
I do not like to give to United Way and did you realize that Red Cross only helps those that are income eligible?
I have a friend whose newly purchased home burnt to the ground. they lost everything but the clothes on their backs. savings had been used as downpayment on the house.
Red cross said the household income was above the limit for them to help. I haven't given to Red Cross since. these people had to split up the family and stay with friends until the insurance money came in.
posted on September 20, 2001 01:49:32 PM
Your comments pretty much mesh with my thoughts. My point is that something like your last comment "So basically, insurance would NOT be provided UNLESS the buyer paid for it (as a separate transaction or something)." should be thought out and made clear by ebay to bidders. My sales are 50 to 400$ so insurance is always provided, one way or another, yes, if I did a A4A the buyer would certainly have to pay for it.
posted on September 20, 2001 05:22:08 PM
The way I understand it (and ask your accountant to be sure) is that if you receive merchandise for your donation, you cannot write it off.
However, I see no reason the seller would not be able to claim a charitable deduction for the amount of the auction. They have donated the item, and there is a good valuation of the item by means of the auction.
When I have donated artworks to charity art auctions, I claim that amount in my returns.
posted on September 20, 2001 05:37:21 PM
I've always thought United Way sucked,I once had a job back in the early 70's that was trying to get each employee to pledge to give a amount of money they had set which would come out of your pay check each week.When I refused to give the amount they had set they threatened to fire me.All this was to make this company look good by reaching a goal they had set to beat out the amount another company was giving.What E-bay is doing reminds me of that.
posted on September 20, 2001 08:02:18 PM
I had a friend who worked for United Way. When she told me of the huge banquet they had for the local business mucky-mucks and how much it cost, I never again donated to that organization. Shameful.
posted on September 20, 2001 09:17:40 PM
The company I work at (I'm a contractor) just had their annual guilt drive.
They did everything to raise money for United Way. It was sickening. The dress code is business casual, but if you pay blackmail money you can wear jeans. $6 per DAY they asked for!
In addition, they did some things that I feel were borderline illegal, one being a lottery type thing where you guess how much money is in a jar and then win half of it!
I hear those companies that really go strong on UW do force people to give or be fired. It's not just $$$ it's % participation.
posted on September 20, 2001 11:17:59 PM
Doesn't anybody remember the scandal that the UW president got in a few years ago??
He was getting several million a year (salary & perqs) + a private jet + a suite for his mistress paid for out of your donations.
He fought tooth and nail to avoid getting fired. As I remember it, he first said he was worth it because other chief execs of big companies were getting the same. Then he pleaded that he had a psychological problem that compelled him to do it... Eventually fired with big golden parachute.
Edited for one typo
[ edited by icyu on Sep 20, 2001 11:18 PM ]
posted on September 21, 2001 12:06:35 AM
KateArtist said-
<<<The way I understand it (and ask your accountant to be sure) is that if you receive merchandise for your donation, you cannot write it off. >>>
the buyer can write off anything he/she pays above the Fair Market Value of the item if he/she pays it to a QUALIFIED CHARITABLE ORGANIZATION.
<<<However, I see no reason the seller would not be able to claim a charitable deduction for the amount of the auction. They have donated the item, and there is a good valuation of the item by means of the auction. >>>
There may be a very good reason. IRS rules require the "donation" in the vast majority of cases to go directly to an IRS-approved charity, and there are strict guideline for that. eBay and Billpoint don't appear to meet them.
<<<When I have donated artworks to charity art auctions, I claim that amount in my returns.>>>
Yes, and in those cases the auctioneer is a direct agent of an approved Charitable organization, either hired by that agent, or donating it's services to that agent. eBay isn't. In this case, the money goes from the buyer to Billpoint to a credit card company (who is the direct agent of the 911 Fund) to the charity.
posted on September 21, 2001 12:12:42 AM
KateArtist, you said, "I see no reason the seller would not be able to claim a charitable deduction for the amount of the auction. They have donated the item, and there is a good valuation of the item by means of the auction."
Under IRS rules, when you donate goods to charity (as opposed to cash), you can only claim your cost of the item OR fair market value, whichever is lower.
If you buy a $10 widget and it sells on AFA for $100, you can only claim a $10 donation on your tax return. If you make a painting for $20 cost (what you paid for materials to produce it) and donate it to charity, you can only claim a $20 donation for it, though its retail value might be $2000. You aren't allowed to include YOUR TIME OR LABOR SPENT MAKING IT as part of the cost....but if you PAID someone else to paint it, you can claim the materials AND the amount you paid the laborer to make it.
Ebay hasn't made it clear exactly HOW this donation is supposed to work, since the seller is making the donation (NOT the buyer)---but the seller doesn't actually GIVE POSSESSION of the donated item to the charity, as is usually the case---and the BUYER is the one with the bank or CC withdrawal in the name of the charity.
As far as the shipping insurance question goes....since the buyer is being told by eBay (on every AFA listing) that SHIPPING IS PAID BY THE SELLER, the buyers will all ASSUME the seller is responsible for ALL shipping costs---labor, packaging materials, metering services, delivery confirmation, postage, and insurance. The buyer will EXPECT the item to arrive, arrive undamaged, arrive as described, and will hold the seller responsible if it doesn't.
Since Billpoint has promised not to pass on chargebacks to the seller, the seller won't be hurt FINANCIALLY if the item is lost or damaged in transit.....but we can assume that the buyer will be able to LEAVE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK for the seller if he's dissatisfied with his purchase for any reason.
We can assume, in the case of a buyer chargeback, that since Billpoint won't be sticking it to the seller, they'll simply deduct the bid amount in question from their $100 million Fund. If the buyer wants to return for a refund, or the item is damaged in transit and the seller didn't purchase shipping insurance, I guess the buyer will have to ask eBay for the refund (and let the package be shipped to their California office rather than back to the seller!!!!!). It seems more likely that eBay would refund the buyer's money and tell him to KEEP the item.
Returns and refunds are some of the areas of this promotion/marketing scheme that eBay has yet to address, and they don't seem to be in any hurry to clear the matters up.
After all, they only had A WEEK to think this all through, and a week isn't very long when all your time is spent worrying about gross revenues, buy/sell ratings, profit figures, and corporate stock valuations.
posted on September 21, 2001 03:34:09 AM
Hi everyone, it's been quite a while. I totally think this thing stinks. I heard a news report that eBay was donating 100 million and wanted the real scoop. Of course I found out that it wasn't eBay at all but the good people who work hard on eBay. I was floored that it was released as eBay. Wonderful eBay giving it's own money away. No mention of the great users working hard to make it happen.
I'm still reading up and catching up on all the other junk that surrounds it. It's so sad that a mega corp. could make such a difference immediately but would rather wait, advertise and actually profit from a horrible, horrible terrorist act. I cannot believe that eBay releases that they are the ones doing the giving here. Truly unbelievable!!! They are doing the giving so to speak, but it's of a different sort all together.
By they way, could someone give me some quick insight to why United Way is so bad. I honestly haven't followed up on it and was hoping someone could just summarize some of the problems with them. I'm just curious really. I normally wait for a direct donation fund to come out and give directly to that source. After watching a lot of investigative reporting on some other "charities," I learned that sometimes most of the money never makes it to where it is designed to go. After all if we're the ones giving away money, we should have the say to who it goes to. Simple concept really. If they don't like it then I don't give them my funds. It amazes me to no ends how they actually think they get a say to who we donate to. I'd write a check directly to the families if I could.
Thanks in advance on the United Way insight. I appreciate it a bunch. You all are truly a bunch of wonderful people for all you do to help inform. As you may know from the past, I appreciate it greatly and do not take it for granted. Take the time to give a loved one a hug today. It really does help during the hardest of times.
I have Nothing Prophetic To Say At The Moment & Probably Never Will.
[ edited by Riz23 on Sep 21, 2001 03:36 AM ]
posted on September 21, 2001 04:31:42 AM
For me the main sticking point is Billpoint. I have plenty of objections to AFA, but that one's kind of the dealbreaker. I pretty much decided to buckle under and join BP, then close the account after AFA. But then I realize that the buyers will also have to join, and they won't bother to close their account after the promotion, er, I mean ... charity drive. This will allow eBay to skew the books and also put pressure on future sellers to accept BP.
There are just too many good, guilt-free ways to give (and United Way is not one) that I'm going to have to thumbs-down eBay's AFA promotion. BTW, I'm heading a Red Cross donation drive at work.
posted on September 21, 2001 05:33:31 AM
The United Way has had some LOCAL chapters with problems ... and their national chief (1995) was convicted of all kinds of stuff.
Also, some feel their local and antional exectuive officers are overpaid (Tucson's gets $136,000/year)
(1999 story)
" The Santa Clara County chapter of United Way announced last week that former San Jose city manager Les White--who has a reputation for managerial skill, fiscal prudence and integrity--has taken over as interim CEO of the beleaguered charity. White will replace Eleanor Jacobs, who was fired for overspending the organization into an $11 million deficit. Well, I sure am glad the outfit that bilked Santa Clara County citizens out of $11 million is now in good hands.
As if United Way needed some more bad press. Many of us still associate the organization with its former national chief William Aramony, who was convicted in 1995 on 25 felony counts (including fraud, conspiracy, money laundering and filing false tax returns) and received a seven-year jail sentence.
The local United Way debacle apparently was the result of mismanagement rather than calculated corruption. But $11 million is a pretty hefty dose of bad judgment. When the top administrator of a charitable nonprofit authorizes deficit spending in hundreds of thousands of dollars for excessive salaries, image consultants, event specialists, lavish black-tie fundraising parties, focus groups and spiffy logo designs, she is very close to crossing the line between bad judgment and misuse of public funds.
posted on September 21, 2001 06:52:20 AM
RE chargebacks: Ebay will waive the $10 fee and also will not debit the seller.
Also, BUYERS do not have to sign up for Billpoint to use it.
Supposedly, ebay is working on adding other charities to the donation payout.
Ebay has stated that any interest made on the fund will also be donated.
RE: damaged items and lost items: Ebay encourages Seller and Buyer to "work out a solution."
All in all, I also think that ebay, once again, neglected to consider the SELLER.
Good thing I like beans... that might be all I am eating for a while.
