You get to screw over some honest merchant - and nothign happens to you!
Oh, sure! The account gets canceled. But then, there's a couple dozen more to go through before we've had our fun!
Hahahahahaaaaa!
Well, what if instead of Sellers having to pay the Listing Fee and having to apply for the Final Value Fee (FVF) refund which takes so long, what if the Deadbeat had to pay? How would that work?
Well, maybe the fees for Listing and FVF could go onto their account. They could not place anymore bids until the charges were paid up.
Then, if they are NARU'd and the account is canceled, it will follow them to any other account that they are discovered to be using.
If Credit Cards/Bank Account info were required to be a member, then the fees could even end up on the deadbeat's credit history!
This doesn't seem to have any down-side for Sellers or Honest Buyers. Why don't you think it would work? I want to hear all of the Exceptions to the Rule that many AW posters are so fond of.
posted on October 14, 2000 06:17:17 PM
This would effect sellers over all if they require bidder to give credit card numbers yahoo has already proved to the auction world this will kill bidding over night
bidding on yahoo is off by over 60% since they put the rule into effect and if ebay just added FVF to a dead beats tab over time ebay would go broke I mean after all a deadbeat is a credit risk the one not paying there way.
just like someone who charges back to often on there Credit card will soon be seen as a risk to the credit card company and the people they charge back on as well.
it all comes down to what I said in another thread all buyer and sellers have to accept reasonable risk in these mail order matters or all these insurances and other fruad protection services are going fee us to death.
I pointed out the average ebay seller who sells 100 items for $10 to $20 each pays for shipping insurance even if the buyer dont ask for it to protect them selves pays $85 for Insurance coverage for two or three days.
The average safe driver wouldnt pay that much for good car insurance for a whole month and will more then likely have a $400 deductable.
add the DC & tracking for the paypal protection and there is another $35 to $60 for protection being paid out.
anyone who took all payments through paypal pays the .25 and 1.9% for more protection.
pluss a good part of ebay fees goes to paying for the insurance they offer buyers as well buy the time you pay all these fees for insurance and protection near $250 or more for no more then 5 to 10 days of peace of mind its getting nuts.
all have to go back to admiting and accepting reasonable Risk in this online auction mail order world in most cases most problems are no fault of the buyer or seller.
in the case of dead beats they are far and few its a pain to have to apply for the refund but at least the problem is recognized and the refund is offered.
I garentee if a buyer got a scratch on a car and they had a $250 to $500 deductable they wouldnt run to the body repair shop and get this $200 door ding repaired.
how many people with home owner insurance that can have from $250 to $4000 deductable call the insurance company over a broken window or new blown over or blown away $150 screen house not many yet they will get online to ebay bid and win on a $20 or $30 widget and fight for protection and insurance and fraud 101 different ways for the next 5 month because of a scuff or chip.
granted there are some very good claims out there but I have been selling packageing shipping and buying for over a year you know what I never had one complaint not one untill guess when the frist time I insured an item you got it Insured the item and the buyer claimed they need the insurance receipt the item as far as they were .
look for a year we all accepted paypal with little to no trouble few times we heard about fraud and a few buyer atempted to fight for charge back.
since paypal started this protection every other thread here is a buyer wanting chrage backs on a paypal payment.
even a big store like walmarts with thousands of sales weekly many have a few dozzen return in a normal week but I would dare say they dont have dozzens or hundered of charge backs per 1000 sales.
and im sure charge backs are not something they just shrug and take lightly.
and im sure if people went charge back happy they would go over to a no credit card policy or start a walmart charge card with there own terms to deal with the problem charge high interest and member ship fee.
sorry for venting in your thread but this is all food for thought buyers must know and accept reasonable risk and know that a bid on a auction is not a means of getting something for nothing buy means of peotection charge backs and insurance that at this point they are for the most part not paying for.
for the most part in my time selling i am finding many buyers are great to deal with but im starting in the past 4 months finding paterns that just arent looking good.
posted on October 14, 2000 06:20:56 PM
I think your idea is a good one also. Except that the bidder may just ask for a charge back through their credit card company and it would cause lots more work for ebay and your credits would be "held" until it was all resolved which may be months later if ever.
posted on October 14, 2000 11:04:30 PMdman3: - I fully realize that deadbeats are a part and pacel of the mail order business. HOwever, it makes no sense to me why deadbeats simply will not withdraw their bid before the auction is over! I understand that this could also be misinterpreted as Bid Sheilding if it happened too often. Surely, if the fees were put upon the deadbeat -- even without the credit card/bank account, it would go a long ways towards slowing the deadbeat problem down.
Yes, if eBay was made to bill deadbeats instead of us, then eBay would actually try doing somehting more concete about the issue. As it is, they sit back and collect the fees and Dictate from On-High to us.
Would verification kill eBay bids? Not if the top six major auction web sites did it. After six, where else is the buyer going to go to to get as good a bargain as they do right now with us?
Even if eBay (and Brave Yahoo!) alone instituted this verification policy the same thing would apply. After all: how many items do you sell over at Gold's compared to eBay and Yahoo!? [Rhetorical question - do not answer]
The main reason that I suggest these things is because eBay, by not doing enough, is actually creating the problem. I am not in favor of beating us on deadbeats - we all have our bad times and s**t happens as well. But 3 times, 10 times, more . . .? Where does someone draw the line? And Who will have to draw that line? It has to be the "Venues".
posted on October 14, 2000 11:14:07 PM
I like this idea, really, I do.. as a seller.
I will have to be honest though, and y'all will probably think of me as the LAZIEST woman alive, BUT; since Yahoo instituted the credit card verification thing I have not place a single "impulse bid". Why? I haven't wanted to mess with going to get my CC# when I'm "browsing" Yahoo auctions! Yes, that is incredibly lazy. I keep my purse in another part of the house and I just haven't been driven to run get my CC out to place a bid! Now, if I didn't have to do that, I would have probably placed a couple impulse bids recently.. but because I'm supremely lazy, it's too much trouble, if the item isn't something I cannot live without (and there haven't been any of those in a while).
So, while this may make you think of me as just ridiculous, and while I of course will eventually register my CC, don't think for a moment that others aren't lazy like I am. It *has* affected my bidding habits, at least on impulse buys, and I'm surely not the only one who is busy with ICQ, reading email, and otherwise "multi-tasking" enough that they dont' want to screw with CC registration to bid on a frivolous item that caught their fancy.
Just something to think about. I still think that overall, CC registration for verification is a good idea and that charging deadbeats for fees is an EXCELLENT one.
As far as CC registrations cutting down on deadbeats ..............
There's a large volume seller on eBay that sells in the Adult area [that area requires a CC to bid] I remember him commenting that shortly after eBay forced the Adult buyers to register with a CC that not only did the overall bids drop, but that the deadbeat numbers remained the same, and for some
sellers, they increased.
He was warning sellers who are Pro CC verification that if eBay was to implement CC verification across the site, that those sellers better be ready for an overall decline in bids.
Not everyone has a CC, and for those that do, not all of them trust eBay with that info on the eBay servers.
Can't say as I blame them, ever read eBay's Privacy Policy?
If I was a buyer only, I wouldn't want my CC # on eBay's servers, or Yahoo's, or any of the other online auction sites.
posted on October 14, 2000 11:47:40 PM
If eBay is gonna require Bidders to register a CC, excluding Adult Auctions, one of two situations will happen:
1. The Yahoo Auctions Scenario, where bidding goes down. And we know Meg needs to keep the shareholders (especially me, a shareholder myself as of Friday night) happy as hell.
2. A vocal outcry from the Bidders, and a backlash that might sting eBay for sometime. And it will also hit the sellers.
So, what is it gonna be?
Anger me, a shareholder, or anger the bidders?
:\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
posted on October 15, 2000 10:39:28 AMThis doesn't seem to have any down-side for Sellers or Honest Buyers.
Well, actually there is - Dishonest Sellers.
There was another suggestion regarding deadbeats on the thread http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=2&thread=271495.
You all are assuming that sellers are hard-working honest folk and buyers are generally pond scum.
That ain't necessarily so. Read my post half-way down. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty. Are you suggesting the &%^$%* who tried to rip me off for twice the selling price could also make me pay his listing fee? I'd be outa here sooooo fast.....
Sorry, but there would have to be a simple way to prove who was the pond scum before ebay could even consider this or else they would be up to their eyeballs in disputes.
[ edited by BlondeSense on Oct 15, 2000 10:43 AM ]
[ edited by BlondeSense on Oct 15, 2000 10:50 AM ]
posted on October 15, 2000 11:33:59 AM
This is another simple-simon idea that WON"T WORK! Why? Because Ebay can't prove anything one way or the other. It doesn't matter so much when they are warning buyers for not paying or even dropping their accounts, but they can hardly just start doling out "justice" on peoples' credit cards! The current system works just fine. Deadbeat bidders are a big problem but they are part of the game and they should be taken into consideration in your calculuations for how much you will make, rather than figuring on getting 100% of your bid money and then feeling like you've lost something because of deadbeats!
posted on October 15, 2000 11:43:20 AMAre you suggesting the &%^$%* who tried to rip me off for twice the selling price could also make me pay his listing fee?
Perhaps a feature could be included in which the buyer could dispute the charge. I don't know how you would go about resolving disputes, but even if a dispute automatically meant that the seller paid, it would still be better than the current situation.
Of course, this will never be implemented because a lot of fees would go uncollected because of deadbeats using bogus, expired, or over-limit credit cards.
Also, if this were implemented, the new number 1 deadbeat excuse would be: "But I PAID the fees...."
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All rights reserved. All wrongs reversed.
posted on October 15, 2000 02:44:47 PM
I like this idea, really, I do.. as a seller.
I will have to be honest though, and y'all will probably think of me as the LAZIEST woman alive, BUT; since Yahoo instituted the credit card verification thing I have not place a single "impulse bid". Why? I haven't wanted to mess with going to get my CC# when I'm "browsing" Yahoo auctions! Yes, that is incredibly lazy. I keep my purse in another part of the house and I just haven't been driven to run get my CC out to place a bid! Now, if I didn't have to do that, I would have probably placed a couple impulse bids recently.. but because I'm supremely lazy, it's too much trouble, if the item isn't something I cannot live without (and there haven't been any of those in a while).
So, while this may make you think of me as just ridiculous, and while I of course will eventually register my CC, don't think for a moment that others aren't lazy like I am. It *has* affected my bidding habits, at least on impulse buys, and I'm surely not the only one who is busy with ICQ, reading email, and otherwise "multi-tasking" enough that they dont' want to screw with CC registration to bid on a frivolous item that caught their fancy.
Just something to think about. I still think that overall, CC registration for verification is a good idea and that charging deadbeats for fees is an EXCELLENT one.
