posted on September 16, 2000 09:40:51 PM new
I use Paypal as a buyer and as a seller. When I buy I put paypal or PP in the search engine and shop with those sellers who use this service. As a seller about 85 % of my customers pay with paypal.
Yes, I was angry when this all started and I think they could have and should have done things differently. But such is life. I signed on with them as a business over a month ago. And I am not a big seller. Mostly I sell stuff I have bought and paid for, used and got tired of. My meeting with the IRS 4 years ago on the question of me selling my garage sale stuff ended my fantasy that I am engaging in a hobby! And the IRS will catch up with those who think they have a tax free income.
Yeah paypal screwed up but I still love their service. I am sorry to see this on-going bashing of them on these boards. So if you are still with paypal and are going to stand with them through this, stand up and be counted!
posted on September 16, 2000 09:46:04 PM new
I agree that the whole thing was handled poorly. However, PayPal continues to be a workable payment method for me both as a buyer and seller. If PP is as tainted as some would like us all to believe, eventually it will catch up to them and competing services will take away all their business. At this point, I haven't seen anything so much better that I'm willing to move my eggs from one basket to another.
posted on September 16, 2000 09:46:44 PM new
Well thanks....Glad to have you join me. We need to all have choices and we all experience situations differently. I never expect PayPal to always be free for my business. I never expect anything in life to be free!
~~Redhead~~
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider
that the limit of our power of perception is also the
limit of all there is to perceive."--C.W.L.
posted on September 16, 2000 09:46:48 PM new
I'm sticking with PayPal, too. I love their service and while I understand why people are angry (PayPal definitely could have handled things better than they have), I'll continue to use it.
I get really annoyed these days when someone doesn't pay using PayPal! I guess it's the impatient side of me that doesn't like waiting a week for a check or a money order.
I may also check out other services, but not as replacements.
posted on September 16, 2000 09:50:40 PM new
Thanks you guys. Our voices need to be heard also. Don't want buyers or sellers to think there isn't any support for Paypal. I agree with you all. I've tried other services and didn't like them. So Paypal screwed up! So has my bank but I didn't dump them.
~~Redhead~~
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider
that the limit of our power of perception is also the
limit of all there is to perceive."--C.W.L.
posted on September 16, 2000 09:57:39 PM new
I've still got a PayPal logo on my auctions. If you don't want to accept it fine, don't accept it. I would appreciate if you didn't scare buyers away from using it. PayPal has saved me on money orders and allowed me to accept quick payments, they've given me referrals.
While I'll admit they've made mistakes I don't think they deserve the 'gang tackling' they've received.
By the actions of some, it would seem the first time their car failed to start or died in an intersection they'd scrap the thing and return to a horse and buggy.
posted on September 16, 2000 10:01:27 PM new
I hope you are addressing readers and not me! I support Paypal. If some users get their way, PayPal would be banned by Ebay. I sure do not support this and will fight against it.
~~Redhead~~
\"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider
that the limit of our power of perception is also the
limit of all there is to perceive.\"--C.W.L.
posted on September 16, 2000 10:12:36 PM new
I've known since May that PayPal would eventually charge businesses for their services. I've known that because they told me so in an email - in fact, in several different emails over the last several months. Guess that's why I don't understand why everyone seemed surprized by it.
Even if they hadn't told me upfront I would have expected it - it seems reasonable to me. I love the convenience and haven't had any problems (knock on wood) for myself or for my customers.
I also think I'll pay a lot of fees before we break even on the referral $$ I've already collected from them - and expect to continue to collect. So, in effect it's still free.
posted on September 16, 2000 10:16:08 PM new
Mybidness,
I haven't had one problem either. Ever!
~~Redhead~~
\"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider
that the limit of our power of perception is also the
limit of all there is to perceive.\"--C.W.L.
posted on September 16, 2000 10:36:58 PM new
::Standing right up with you::
I have read most of the threads complaining about Paypal. Most of the time I shook my head in disbelief! While I can understand some being upset with the way things were handled.... when I got the infamous pop-up screen, I took time to read my options & then make my final decision. I decided to upgrade my account, but the option was there to remain a personal account user. No one was forced to upgrade. It's unbelivable that some think that a company like this can operate for nothing. Especially when their services are used for more than an occasional transaction. Those of us selling more than an occasional item online should consider ourselves a business, no matter how small the profit is. Therefore, we need to realize that in a business there are some necessary expenses. The convenience of accepting a credit card is one of those expenses.
Enough of my rambling.... I just wanted to show my support of Paypal. My logos are staying put & I will continue to accept Paypal as long as the need & demand is there.
posted on September 16, 2000 10:39:04 PM new
Hi Redhead---I as so many others embraced paypal as a great convenience to me as a seller and buyer. The sticky part came when they sorta kinda sneaked in that "must upgrade" as a business feature.
I will agree with you from a business standpoint, they do offer about the lowest percent for a credit card transaction....BUT...
when I hear a free offer--I expect a free offer. Not to change midstream when the numbers are inflated (they gave me two paypal accounts when I signed up--wonder how many others?---sure looks good on the books--heh?)
Anyways---when I first started online--personal check and money order stood me in good stead--and they will again. I like to roll with the punches and go with them.
Paypal ain't going to go down---just what I see from this board. So--- more power to them--they just are not going to have my pound of flesh.
And it is really nifty to have an accurate handle on my bank account again---those bank transfers were giving me double digit headaches!
Good luck with Paypal----the future should be interesting.
posted on September 16, 2000 10:47:48 PM new
Lisa, I made my decision in about the same way and although I sell mostly low end collectibles, antiques and books the fees are very low. Thanks for joining us.
Jeanyu, I seldom post on this board but I am a die hard lurker. I have read a lot of your posts. I love the way you handle an opposing opinion. No attacks, just the facts as you experience them and from your perspective. I wish you the best also.
~~Redhead~~
\"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider
that the limit of our power of perception is also the
limit of all there is to perceive.\"--C.W.L.
posted on September 16, 2000 10:55:18 PM new
I love! er...like! er... tolerate! PayPal now!
I was a die-hard PP cheerleader -- hey, I signed up for the Premier account when it first came out & I DIDN'T HAVE TO but I WANTED TO!
I felt the phone# + debit card + international payments was worth it! Well, as Meatloaf said "2 (whoops, I mean 1) out 3 ain't bad!"
And heck, 1.9% was a real bargain! UNTIL THEY ADD THE QUARTER! Not such a great bargain anymore! Actually, I CAN'T AFFORD THEM AFTER 10/1 !!
That combined with the LOGO SNAFU and the VERIFICATION SNAFU, has left a "Shrillpoint-sour" taste in my mouth!
So, I TOLERATE PayPal now -- I perform illegal circus tricks a la The Kama Sutra for my winners in an effort to steer them away from PP & into a new clone of PP that is FREE! Hey, I didn't mind 1.9%, BUT FREE IS BETTER!
posted on September 16, 2000 11:09:11 PM new
Hello, I am a buyer. I love Paypal. I took my time about signing up, but now I often do not bid unless the seller takes Paypal.
I have paid with checks, cashiers checks, cash, stamps, postal money orders, regular money orders, wire transfers, bank-e and credit cards by email and telephone. With Paypal I am able to take a minute after reading an EOA message and just be done with it, no trip to the bank, no trip to the post office, no stamp, no printing my reply to the EOA.
So Paypal has adopted a policy of never accepting the least amount of blame, angering customers and in general, making Firestone look good. None of that or the surprise that there is no free lunch changes the fact that sellers need a simple easy way to take credit cards. Whether Paypal, Billpoint or something else, this is the future. We buyers are hooked.
It is your business and you can refuse to participate if you think that is best. But ask yourself if you think your business is better than your competitors who only take money orders. If it is, then consider the relative difference between taking Paypal and not.
As a buyer I am going to keep looking for auctions that take Paypal.
posted on September 17, 2000 12:08:27 AM new
I used to love PayPal and sincerely wish I still could. I am less than enamored by *how* they do business & the way they treat their customers. Their waffling over "the rules." The past two months have seen them lie about their original rules & intent, spring a change upon users without advance warning (not to mention bckdating its inauguration), begin forcing upgrades on users after repeatedly saying no one would "have" to upgrade, etc.
Yes, it is convenient. But for the majority of online auction sellers, it is not necessary. Personally, I am *not* closing my account at the present time (I have left $20 in it). However, I will not be advertising PayPal on my auctions, nor accepting PayPal payments. I do not trust them and will keep an eye on these boards to see what developments there are. *If* they keep their noses clean for the next 3-6 months, I may consider using them again. Unfortunately, I don't think that is going to happen.
posted on September 17, 2000 04:30:46 AM new
I too am sticking with paypal. Nothing is free forever. Those who think they deserve a free lunch need to look around. What are they giving for free? I would much rather click and send the money to my bank than get in the car to deposit money orders and checks, then wait for checks to clear. What paypal is charging is recouped in saved time on the sellers part. How many are going to stampede out of here when AW starts charging?
[ edited by rarriffle on Sep 17, 2000 04:32 AM ]
posted on September 17, 2000 04:54:28 AM new
I am confused. The implication is that PayPal was generously providing a service for "free" as in "they didn't get anything out of it, and now they need to earn a living." They did get something out of it. They established a company and promoted themselves as a convenience for buyers and sellers. They hold money for a minimum of 3 days before transferring to owner's accounts. Other funds simply sit in their accounts. So they earn money on "the float."
I can certainly understand if they realized they can't make it on this policy. Fine. But the way they handled this "policy change" stinks. My understanding of the situation was that in June they offered business accounts with features that larger, more active sellers would find desirable. Great, if I needed those services, I would sign up and pay. But I don't. I just want to keep the status quo. As Tom pointed out, 1.9% is possible, but add 25 cents per transaction, and it busts the bank.
The bottom line for me is, if they inforce these rates for anyone bringing money into their system, they've lost my account because I can't afford it. Hence they have lost whatever they are making on my "float." Probably that is a "who cares?" situation for them, unless you multiply me by thousands of other small-fry sellers who feel the same way.
posted on September 17, 2000 05:22:41 AM new
Kiziak,
I understand that you feel that Paypal's handling of this situation stinks. I feel like they could've handled it better also. But most misunderstandings and such can be handled by communication. (Which is usually a no win situation on these boards when lots of folks are angry.) Why not call them? Perhaps your situation would'nt require that you sign up for a business account with all the bells and whistles.
I think a lot of folks might be pleasantly surprised if they would calm down a bit and just call Paypal and explain what their circumstances are. Paypal should've done their homework and had a plan in place before any of these changes were initiated. Hopefully they have learned a thing or two from all of this. Shame on PayPal but let's not trash them yet.
~~Redhead~~
\"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider
that the limit of our power of perception is also the
limit of all there is to perceive.\"--C.W.L.
posted on September 17, 2000 05:44:29 AM new
Better get used to dealing with generation X business ethics as we grow older. Situation
ethics = what can you get away with?
I worked for a company for 2 weeks and they were sold. The new owners did not want my services but they refused to pay me for my 2 weeks. Asked why should they pay. I explained if they did not I would come back in the night and burn the place down. Fellow thought it over - "Sounds reasonable to me." and ordered a check cut. It just sounded like another business plan to him - nothing personal. Now THAT"S scary that he did not
get upset or refuse to believe me. A boomer would have flipped.
posted on September 17, 2000 05:45:19 AM new
I'm standing with you! I love PayPal and I am getting bored with all the malcontents posting their anger on this and other boards. The new fees are still less than one would normally have to pay to accept credit cards. My buyers love PayPal. Last month 2/3 of them paid me that way. I love it because I don't have to wait for payment to arrive - It comes right away and I ship the next day. It's great to get the merchandise out of the house.
posted on September 17, 2000 05:59:28 AM new
Hi Everyone up ^^^^there! Nothing easier then buying and selling with Paypal. My buying has increased by about 100% since I can pay through Paypal. And my buyers love it also.
I shopped all night. Out of the many many auctions I open all of them but two used Paypal. Did'nt see one that contained any anti- paypal stuff. I did see a seller who is charging .75 to buyers wanting to use paypal. All she said was that Paypal was now charging her for transactions.
BBL
~~Redhead~~
\"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider
that the limit of our power of perception is also the
limit of all there is to perceive.\"--C.W.L.
posted on September 17, 2000 06:19:37 AM new
I still love paypal,X.com stinks though.
It's kind of like when your best friend marries a complete jerk. You have to make a decision whether the friendship is worth the price of having to deal with the jerk or move on.I find it is best to ride it out until you find out whether the good is going to be good enough to sustain you through the bad.
I figure paypal married a jerk and they will either level out or choose to become better or worse than the sum of thier parts.
posted on September 17, 2000 06:53:12 AM new
As a seller of low $ items, the 1.9% plus .25 is waaaaay too high for me. On a $10 sale it works out to a total of 4%, on a $20 sale it's 3.2%. If I want to pay those kinds of fees I may as well go with Billpoint and have the safety it offers.
Those of you who say you only bid on PP auctions, how willingly are you going to ante up when the seller adds their PP fees to their handling fee, or raises their starting bids to cover the additional expense?
posted on September 17, 2000 07:01:29 AM new
Joann, Hello! Just a quick drop in! Early this morning I bid on a dress. The seller stated that for bidders who intended to use paypal please add .75. I bid. I look at the whole package when I bid. (The item cost, the postage and any other fees.) The dress was still a great deal.
~~Redhead~~
\"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider
that the limit of our power of perception is also the
limit of all there is to perceive.\"--C.W.L.
posted on September 17, 2000 07:25:46 AM new Red Morning, pouring like crazy here in Fla. I am with you on PayPal This sure beats anything else. I tried CC Now, and got caught inthe WeCharge Scam. (Never did recover my money).....So I am very pleased with Paypal. I do not mind paying a little for the services,I do admit when that suprise window opened up to upgrade, I was a little startled. But I still think it is most definitely worth it. I do a lot of buying and selling, and it sure has made my online experience a lot better. Not to mention, the faster shipping. If I had to get a merchant account it would cost a lot more than paypal.
I have had a few problems, but all to my own stupidity, and paypal responded very quickly.
Anyway, hugs to you redhead, come and visit with me OK Zzzzzzzz
posted on September 17, 2000 07:37:55 AM new
Question for paypal lovers:
Are you going to pass the fee on to your customers? As buyers, will you mind paying the fee? I read the post above from one who didn't mind, but what do others think? Some of my auctions only have a $2-3 profit margin, so I can't afford to eat the fee. And I don't mind waiting a week to get a money order, although Paypal really has been quick and convenient. A customer has to pay for a money order and a stamp to mail it, so I think it's fair to ask them to pay the buck or so in fees to use Paypal. It's convenient for them, too.
ALSO: I spoke to someone in CS on the phone yesterday at Paypal who told me that starting Oct 1st, transactions $10 and under would only be charged $.25. Auctions over $10 will be charged the 1.9% plus .25. If this is true, it would certainly be more reasonable for those lower transactions. But CS reps aren't always the most reliable source of accurate info, unfortunately.
posted on September 17, 2000 07:43:02 AM new
Yes I still use Paypal. I recently upgraded to a Business Account. Yes I do run a business & close many auctions a month & there was no way I could fool anyone that I wasn't a business account
Its still a lot cheaper for the buyer than buying a money order & yes I do accept other forms of payment other than Paypal.
