posted on March 29, 2002 06:52:12 AM new
I have just noticed a recurring theme on these pages (forgive me finally woke up and smelt the coffee!) it appears that when a BUYER files a chargeback regarding a problem seems like PayPal nearly ALWAYS restricts the buyers account.
Doesn't this seem crazy?
I mean you buy something you do not receive it so you do a file complain with PayPal you get the standard reply we are sorry however the seller has $0 in his account to refund the monies after 30-45 days. Then you file a chargeback and your account is restricted as if you were the FRAUDULENT / PROBLEM seller.
Appreciate this doesn't happen all the time just noticed it alot recently on the boards.
posted on March 29, 2002 10:15:33 AM new
paypal is protecting itself in case the buyer who files chargeback with his cc issuer win and there is no money in seller account.
so who pays under this scenario?
paypal!!
now,by restricting the buyer account,it will be able to deduct that sum from the buyer .
until ebay cleans up its act and do a better job screening ebay sellers and buyers,paypal will continue to take the heat or rather loss.
or paypal can start screening the sellers and place limits on how much dollar volume they can do per month,of course then it wont be a growth company and its stock will tank.
i think eventually anyone who wants to sell and sell big time will have to apply for merchant account .
posted on March 29, 2002 10:25:26 AM new
foxy76 said,
mean you buy something you do not receive it so you do a file complain with PayPal ///////////////////
this is not the only reasons buyer file chargeback.
they could file chargeback because someone used their cc to buy,they could be unhappy with the seller and the seller refused to resolve the issue to their satisfaction (like the item is not as described,seller refused to accept return),or they have received the item but claimed they have not;or a tactic to delay making payment to their cc company.
i have a case of an ebay bidder who used his cc to buy an item from me on ebay and keep complaining he has not received the item which was shipped usps priority insured and threaten to file chargeback with his cc company as this charge will be on his statement coming soon,by doing so,he is buying himself more than one month worth of time to resell this item and payoff the credit card charge.
credit card company does frown upon excessive chargebacks .
posted on March 30, 2002 11:24:27 PM new
Stopwhining, yes, restricting the buyers account to try to get money back would help PayPal. Unfortunately for PayPal, buyers are protected under LAW for their purchases. If they don't get the goods they paid for, they have the LEGAL right not to pay the charge (dispute it). PayPal then freezing the buyers account completely ignores that protection the buyer is legally entitled to under law and credit card rules.
In addition, PayPal's own TOS says that they might restrict the buyers account IF they don't file a complaint first. I've seen many stories about people who filed complaints, then after they got the result of no money in the seller's account, then filed a chargeback, and got their account restricted. PayPal's TOS seems to follow the law in that respect, that buyers can file chargebacks without worrying about account restrictions as long as they file a buyer complaint first. But PayPal doesn't seem to follow their own TOS when they restrict people's accounts that after they filed a buyer complaint, charged back the amount. Now if a user "double dips," or gets money back with the buyer complaint process as well as with a chargeback, then yes, PayPal can restrict the buyer's account, since that is cheating. But there are many stories where the user didn't double dip and filed a buyer complaint before a chargeback who got their accounts restricted.
posted on April 1, 2002 05:30:20 AM new
If I had say 1000 in my account and I then filed a chargeback because a seller did not have sufficient funds for paypal to recover because I did not receive material.
How nice of them to FREEZE my MONEY whilst they try to rectify the matter.
Its insane the more you read into paypals TOS the more insane you have to be to use them.
Everything is geared towards protecting PAYPAL no one else. I understand that if I were a company might do the same however people need to be made aware of this then the user base might not be soo large!
posted on April 1, 2002 08:30:42 AM new
ebay is the source of many problems facing paypal,as long as paypal gets most of its business from ebay,it will continue to have problems.but then what else is there besides ebay for paypal??
posted on April 1, 2002 09:06:50 AM new
true its weird I have used all of the payment services and only PAYPAL have I ever have a problem with that seems to be a recurring theme also
posted on April 1, 2002 11:52:27 AM new
This isn't an ebay problem... it's Paypal. Paypal seems to put an account on restriction for any chargeback, even when both parties agree to it. I made a purchase (with a .com companyu) that was not delivered. I filed a complaint. The seller contacted me and was willing to give me a credit. The seller then informs me that because I filed a complaint, he was not allowed to give me a refund! I stopped payment and my account immediately was restricted. Even after the seller was found at fault... my account is still on restriction. (To take it off restriction... Paypal want's all sorts of things faxed to them, including the right to debit my bank account at anytime.) This is the root of all my frustrations...
posted on April 1, 2002 12:59:13 PM new
this is exactly the situation i am refering to its insane that a company be allowed to conduct business like this
posted on April 1, 2002 04:35:08 PM new
frustratedguy, I would empty your bank account completely. Instruct your bank to deny all PayPal debits. Then, give PayPal permission to debit your bank account.
posted on April 1, 2002 07:24:04 PM new
no,the problem is EBAY.
company does not elect new policy unless it happens often enough to warrant it.
buyer has the right to do chargeback ,but with the floodgate open at fraudbay,buyers file more chargeback than the norm and some of these chargebacks may not even be legit.
if ebay does not do its own dealer cleansing,congress will do it for them.
ebay is busy planning the pow wow menu .
posted on April 1, 2002 10:28:33 PM new
andrew123... I would emply my bank account except that I have money market accounts and such tied to it. That's exactly why I don't want to give them that permisson. They abused it by debiting that account by default when I "verified" my account. I feel that by defaulting to your bank account is a violation of trust. (If they have a valid credit card, why do they need the account at all?) Why do they default to a bank account once you verify?? Their behavior/policies make no sense.
posted on April 2, 2002 06:08:14 AM new
if you apply for a merchant account with a bank,it asks for your bank account so it can deposit charge proceeds into that bank account.in case of chargeback which you lost,it will debit your bank account.
think of paypal as the bank which provides you with a merchant account.
as far as i know yahoo paydirect is the only online payment service which can deposit fund into your credit card,all the other services can only deposit fund into your bank account-amzn,billpoint,paypal,c2it.
posted on April 2, 2002 08:33:30 AM new
stopwhining.... You seem to want to be so helpful that you sometimes overlook what the person is saying.
This thread had to do with BUYERS, not sellers or merchants. I'm a buyer, therefore my credit card would be used for debits only. (Unless, of course, I get a refund.) My question then again is... why does Paypal insist on having the ability to debit my bank account? I have no intent of ever using my bank account for purchasing on the Web, as I find it a bad idea. Why then does Paypal DEFAULT to your checking account when you verify your account? Why do they put my account on restriction for exercising my right as a consumer?
[ edited by frustratedguy on Apr 2, 2002 08:35 AM ]
posted on April 2, 2002 09:04:58 AM new
I see no reason why Paypal needs your bank account anyway no one else does. it seems like another method for you to get RIPPPED off and make matters worse no protection once they got the cash from you account its gone forever. When you do add your account paypal AUTOMATICALLY then defaults your account as payment method because THEY KNOW that its better for them for you to pay using your bank as you have no ability to chargeback.
posted on April 2, 2002 01:55:45 PM new
does a payment service distinguish a member whether he is a buyer or seller??
i think once you become a members,most features are made avaialble to you -send money,receive money,transfer fund to your bank account,add fund to your account via bank account etc.
i am saying this from my own experience,i have paypal,billpoint,propay,merchant account and amzn one click,yahoo paydirect and aol direct,i dont think they make any distinction between buyer or seller.
if you are using this forum to vent your anger and frustration against a certain service or individual,may i ask if this type of behavior yields any results??
posted on April 2, 2002 11:00:37 PM new
I would hope that people expressing their frustrations on this forum might be a good way for Paypal to better understand the wants and needs of their customers. The venting of anger on this forum is a direct result of Paypal NOT listening to their customers. Why don't they listen? What's the big deal in leaving the credit card the default method of payment? What the big deal in taking an account off restriction, once they find the other party at fault? These are minor issues that have become major because of Paypal/Damon's continuing to ignore them. This forum offers people the opportunity to vent, with a little hope that Paypal might be listening.
Stopwhining, a question for you... what results are you hoping for by behaving the way you do? What personal interest do you have in defending Paypal??
[ edited by frustratedguy on Apr 2, 2002 11:38 PM ]
posted on April 3, 2002 05:36:11 AM new
I am not venting any anger at Paypal whatsoever I am SIMPLY making people aware of the problems you can incur in using their service. That is the whole point of a discussion forum to make people aware of these kind of problems and discuss them. SURELY YOU CAN SEE THAT YOU POST HERE ALL THE TIME.
PS I dont understand why you always defend Paypal do you work for them stopwhinning? I am not bashing Paypal simply making people aware of what happens when you use them.
Nothing I have stated I believe is incorrect whatsoever.
Why do people use billpoint, aol payments, C2it etc and never have anywhere near as much problems as people get using Paypal that says everything about the company!.
posted on April 3, 2002 05:41:35 AM new
i dont own paypal stock and i dont work for paypal.
i am expressing what i know and what i believe in why a company adopts certain policies.
it can be other payment services altho very few people mention other services.
why does an online payment service wants your bank account information when you just want to use your credit card to buy??
why does it default to your checking account and not your credit card??
why does it restrict your account when you file a chargeback??
ask yourself why and you will get the answers.
all i can see is that things are not well in paypal land?
i dont know about online casino or e gold,but i do know ebay well,anyone can sell on ebay and anyone can post a picture of a laptop and get some one to send them a few hundred dollars,what a way to fend off your landlord??
posted on April 3, 2002 06:11:01 AM new
the questions you ask are EXACTLY the discussion we are talking about
correct anyone can get up dynamic aol account with no cc start up auctions take the money via paypal and run.....highly likely they will not be prosecuted either
posted on April 3, 2002 06:40:32 AM new
aol direct and c2it are not as widely used as paypal.
i think there are problems using billpoint but they are not discussed on AW.
posted on April 3, 2002 08:02:01 AM newanyone can get up dynamic aol account with no cc start up auctions take the money via paypal and run
It is much easier to accept Money Orders and disappear. PayPal isn't going to let you move the funds in your account unless you have a credit card or bank account on file.
As for C2it, I opened my account with them in October 2000. I offered it on my auctions for months and it was never used. I helped my father try to sign up, no luck, I helped my sister-in-law try to sign up, no luck. In a year and a half C2it's membership has swollen to 350,000 (last report I saw), PayPal adds more members in a month than C2it's entire 1.5 year user base. Comparing PayPal and C2it is like comparing grapefruits and rasins.
posted on April 3, 2002 08:14:48 AM new
Stopwhining... In case you're not aware of it, talking about problems is a way of getting past them. As has been said, people are voicing their problems to allow other people (including Mr Damon... which we all know reads all of these posting, but selectively answers them) know about the problems in hopes they avoid them. The discussion that comes from that voicing, should be of great value to most companies who value customer satisfaction. (Even though Damon doesn't respond... I hope he's still considering the input.) It's why the forum is here.
Your behavior of giving YOUR answers to people's questions and/or throwing them back to them only fuels people's fires and frustrations more. Your behavior comes across as belittling and cold. (Hell... even your Username irritates some people.) You asked a question about my/our behavior and what I/we think we're going to get from it, which I just answered again. But you didn't answer my question to you... what results are you hoping for by behaving the way you do?
posted on April 3, 2002 08:35:01 AM new
i appreciate there is nothing to compair paypal against when it comes to user base however you cannot deny the problems people have are insane and their TOS are soo messed up.
Regulation is the only way to clean this company up
posted on April 3, 2002 09:41:26 AM new
belittling and cold?
i would like to think 'OBJECTIVE' is a better way of describing my posts.
i try to see things from both sides and ask why ??
you can always block my postings,aw has a feature which allows you to do so.
but i must admit it is most interesting reading aw posts and i am more convinced than before-never leave a lot of money in my paypal account or any online service account,move money out of that bank account which is hooked up to any of these online services,buy electronic goods from reputable stores such as compusa and bestbuy,never send money to romania,ukraine,russia,nigeria,malaysia and indonesia and do not let anyone else access their ebay or paypal accounts on my pc and with my ISP.
If i am going away for a long period of time,disconnect the keyboard and hide it someplace .
posted on April 3, 2002 10:35:33 AM new
frustratedguy
" Why then does Paypal DEFAULT to your checking account when you verify your account?"
" Why do they put my account on restriction for exercising my right as a consumer?"
This is an auto feature.
As for part two here, you are to wait at least for 30 days before you do a chargeback.
You do not lose your rights as a consumer, but this is to allow paypal a chance to look into the matter, Its in their user tos, check it out on their home page.
This answer below was from another paypal user.
. Was your balance more than the purchase amount? In that case you won't be given the credit card funding option. You can either withdraw your balance to your bank or make a dummy payment (sending funds to one of your email addresses that isn't registered with PayPal.) If you empty your balance that might give you the option to use your credit card. If you make a dummy payment to empty your balance remember to cancel that payment after you've made your credit card purchase.
Another possibility is the seller has set their preferences not to allow credit card payments if you have a bank account on file. Sellers with Premier/Business account have this option.
posted on April 3, 2002 10:41:43 AM new
frustratedguy I wonder if you can remove your bank account once it is linked to paypal to become "unverified again"?
posted on April 3, 2002 11:25:49 AM new
trai true that is the BEST solution because if they decide to get money from you they cannot get what is not there!
posted on April 3, 2002 07:32:30 PM new
trai said,
Best to just set up a no frills checking account just for paypal, billpoint or what have you.
/////////////////////
the problem is while you have control over when to transfer from paypal to your bank account,with billpoint and merchant account they deposit into your account regularly.
so a credit from billpoint could be just in time for a debit coming from paypal or vise versa.
