posted on September 17, 2000 07:53:33 AM new
I used to love PayPal. I signed on very early and put PayPal logos in my auctions. It saddens me to see the direction PayPal has taken since the X.com buyout.
I don't mind paying fees. But the way PayPal is conducting business and treating its users concerns me greatly.
First there was the verification issue. Now there's "you sellers weren't being honest when you didn't sign up for the business acouunts we said you didn't HAVE to sign up for."
I also believe checking account verification is the first step toward pushing buyers into using their checking accounts, instead of credit cards, to fund their PayPal accounts (all under the guise of "buyer protection". Be prepared for it.
I really don't trust PayPal at this point in time and I'm not comfortable in the direction it's heading.
I'd feel differently if PayPal had been HONEST with us.
I'll still take credit card payments. But anyone who will shop only where PayPal is accepted will miss out on some great buys!
posted on September 17, 2000 08:05:30 AM new
Julie, As a seller I haven't decided whether I will pass the fee on to my buyers. As a buyer I won't mind paying an extra .75 on a bid if the deal is a good one. I am also interested to see what other buyers think.
Red is waving wildly to Zelda. I will come by tonight and tell you why I haven't posted. It is a funny on me. And utterly stoopid!
~~Redhead~~
\"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider
that the limit of our power of perception is also the
limit of all there is to perceive.\"--C.W.L.
posted on September 17, 2000 08:57:03 AM new
LOL!!! That's the whole point. I've yet to see the phrase "cost/benefit ratio" mentioned or discussed in the PayPal posts. The people who are SO up in arms about the rest of us continuing to offer it seem to be convinced that we will stay with PP no matter what. Do none of them realize that many/most of us have the business savvy to analyze cost/benefit ratios relative to services like PP, and will certainly jump ship at the point where accepting PP is no longer beneficial, relative to its cost? GIMME A BREAK!!!
posted on September 17, 2000 09:16:13 AM new
I don't believe this was a case of "they could have handled it better." I think it was a cold and calculated lie that Paypal told us from the beginning. They are still lying and tap-dancing around the truth with their current "you are required but not forced" policy. This is a matter of integrity. I won't deal with a company that is out to rip me off. There are plenty of other free online payment services.
Those of you willing to roll over and take it are enabling Paypal and other companies to get away with similar practices. Look for more of the same "always free" services in the future.
Redhead, I don't know what you're trying to accomplish with statements like "my buying has increased 100% since I can pay with Paypal." Are you stating an opinion, or trying to coerce sellers?
posted on September 17, 2000 09:45:50 AM new
I love the CONCEPT of PayPal but as one of the small margin sellers I'm torn. I really can't afford to give $.50 to ebay and $.50 to PayPal on my $1 or $2 dollar items. After giving everyone a little bit along the way there won't be anything left for me. I want to continue to take PayPal but I'm having to think of ways to do it so that it's convenient for my customers but affordable for me.
I could only take PayPal on sales over $10. That rules out most of my sales at the moment. I could take PayPal provided the customer using it is willing to pay the fees associated with that option. I'm trying to think of a way to word that particular choice without getting in trouble. I figure, my customers have to pay for their money orders. The only other option I have is to build the fees into my shiping costs. I currently do not pad my shipping costs at all. I suck up the cost of envelopes and my time to go to the post office. I figure that's all part of the job. Just like the time I spend communting to my office is part of my real job. I could build $.50 more into my shipping fees to cover the "overhead" of taking PayPal and don't think I'd ruffle any feathers.
I guess I'm curious as to what other folks in the lower margin end of the pool are doing and if I'm on the right track with my thoughts.
posted on September 17, 2000 09:53:09 AM new
I like the idea of building that extra $0.75 into the starting bid (for those who don't have that cushion already), although I think your idea of restricting PayPal use to items over a certain bid price has merit also. I believe I've seen the same policy applied to credit card use, so that would probably be acceptable.
posted on September 17, 2000 10:11:17 AM new
Looking at the situation calmly, from a "is this good for my business?" viewpoint, I feel PayPal has been very good for my business. It has speeded up payments (and given me less "payments lost in the mail"! problems), and my customers like its convenience. It's cheaper than getting a merchant account. I wouldn't go back to strictly checks and money orders for anything, especially with the holiday season lurking around the corner. No, I do not plan to tack on an extra fee for taking PayPal. I'm in business, and doing business has its costs.
posted on September 17, 2000 10:43:18 AM new
It took me very little time to figure that PayPal was good for both my bidder and myself. I wish that all of my bidders would use it as it is actually less expensive for both of us if they do in most cases. Why anyone would want to use money orders instead of PayPal is beyond me.
I signed up for a Business account even though I am still a pretty small time seller.
posted on September 17, 2000 11:18:02 AM new
I am reading all the different thoughts and ideas here and I think working this stuff out is good. Most of us will find a way to deal with this if it is a good thing from a business standpoint.
Twinsoft,
You stated:
Redhead, I don't know what you're trying to accomplish with statements like "my buying has increased 100% since I can pay with Paypal." Are you stating an opinion, or trying to coerce sellers?
I read that twice and then I just laughed. Your kidding right? I'm not trying to accomplish anything other then voicing my opinion about how I feel about paypal. My statement that my bidding has increased 100% since I started using palpal is a fact. How in the world would that coerce other sellers????? It is a demonstration of the impact that Paypal has had on MY buying and selling.
HeyGrape, I haven't seen you in ages! I use to love to read your posts on the QA board about 3-4 years ago. Good to see you even if you can't join me yet!
~~Redhead~~
\"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider
that the limit of our power of perception is also the
limit of all there is to perceive.\"--C.W.L.
posted on September 17, 2000 12:14:46 PM new
I'm not a big time seller, so Paypal allows me to keep my personal account.
I like Paypal very much and will continue to encourage my bidders to pay via paypal as long as I don't incur a lot of extra fees.
I am able to ship immediately.
eBay is promoting "electronic checks" via Billpoint which costs the seller a $.35 transaction fee. It is recommended that the seller wait 3 days before shipping item to make sure there is enough money in the account.
posted on September 17, 2000 03:00:27 PM new
Hi Julie -
If this is true (under $10 would cost "only" 25 cents), when will they get their story straight?
I haven't had the gumption yet to put in my auctions that PayPal will cost an extra 75 cents, or whatever. With a percentage charge, I have no way of knowing how much the cost to me will be.
posted on September 17, 2000 03:58:42 PM new
Count me in.
As long as Paypal remains the most economical way for me to accept charges, that is the way I will go. Any other freebies out there will only be freebies for so long or they will not survive.
cariad
posted on September 17, 2000 04:10:53 PM new
after thinking it over and reading here quite a bit, i've decided to keep taking PayPal and have upgraded to a premier account. i'm looking forward to taking paypal for international sales during the Christmas selliung season
I also take many other kinds of payment and will continue to take paypal.
posted on September 17, 2000 04:18:24 PM new
Enchanted:
"i'm looking forward to taking paypal for international sales during the Christmas selliung season"
Well, I've been looking forward to using the international feature since FEBRUARY, so don't hold your breath. It's been "coming soon" for almost a year, along with the shopping cart.
In the computer industry, it's called "ghostware" ... features that may never materialize.
posted on September 17, 2000 04:26:42 PM new
Love Paypal? No. Hate Paypal? No. Surprised about the new direction? No.
At this point I will continue as I have before..won't upgrade..will not become verified. Paypal was a convenience for my customers, it didn't make a difference to me one way or another.
I'll continue to offer billpoint as my preferred method of payment for my customers who want to use credit cards and for international sales, but will also accept paypal. For me the fees are the same.
As others have said..it's all about business and what makes sense for the bottom line. And of course, there is much truth in the saying "there's no such thing as a free lunch"
Just wish Paypal had had the guts to have told us about this from the get go instead of the lies about "always free". It would have made them look more like a real business and not the con artists they ended up looking like.
posted on September 17, 2000 05:19:58 PM new
Redhead? My Redhead? Wow! Long time no see! Hi ya old broad!! I've missed you and all the neat peoples at Q&A. Maybe I'll go over there for a bit tonight. Seems like there is just never enough time and once I get there, I end up staying a couple hours and no work gets done. LOL!!
I've got around 5% of my items on ebay and 95% on Yahoo. Things are perking right along at Yahoo so I'm staying put for now.
At egreed they were taking so much of the pie, I was down to around 2% profit. Now Paypal wants that 2%. I don't have the profit margin to continue to feed all these beasts, ya know? A pie only goes so far and then ya gotta get another pie. LOL!!
posted on September 17, 2000 05:30:34 PM new
I'm gonna stay with Paypal, I want to make things as easy on my customers as possible,especially at Christmas time.
posted on September 17, 2000 05:49:28 PM new
First, let me start by saying that I'm new to this place, and I really like what I've seen so far.
As for the PayPal issue...
I buy more often than I sell. For someone like me, who only sells a few items every few months, and buys regularly, PayPal is extremely convenient.
As a buyer, PayPal allows me to pay sellers a lot more quickly than I would be able to if a money order was the only other available option. Most any credit card payment option would probably enable me to do likewise.
As an occasional seller who still falls under the Personal Account umbrella, PayPal allows me to receive payments quickly, and at no extra cost. Add to that the fact that I've never had any problems with receiving or sending payments, and I guess you could say I'm a very satisfied customer at this point.
As long as PayPal is a cost-effective and reliable service for my needs, I'll continue to use it. Once it's no longer cost-effective, or if the service becomes too problematic for me, then I'll switch.
posted on September 17, 2000 06:04:56 PM new
WE LOVE PAYPAL, WE SIGNED UP FOR THE BUISNESS ACCOUNT, WE SELL TO MAKE A PROFIT SO WE EXPECTED THE FEE SCHEDULE, THIS IS BUISNESS NOT YOUR PERSONAL MONEY LAUNDRY.
every 20 seconds in america a woman is giving birth:SHE MUST BE FOUND AND STOPPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.................................................................
posted on September 17, 2000 06:19:14 PM new
I think that the best thing for us is to keep PayPal for people who feel they must use it, but we will offer other services and feature them promenently.
I think that other services are licking their lips right now and competition is great for everyone. It keeps the cost down. There are a lot of still free services out there so try one and give your pocketbook a rest.
We have also noticed a big increase in payments using Billpoint and bidpay in the last few days.
Spread it around and maybe you won't qualify as a business account afterall.
posted on September 17, 2000 06:20:16 PM new
Hi, Everyone! Newbie here!
I just wanted to say that I still like PayPal. I do mostly buying, but I've just started selling my old junk, and have had nothing but success with PayPal. I joined several months ago, and I upgraded to a Premier Account just before all the 'forcing' began, so it hasn't upset me like some.
I will say that, as a buyer, if there are like items that I want, I will buy from the seller accepting PayPal before I will buy from the one who isn't. I hate buying money orders, and I refuse to send a personal check to somebody I don't know (no logic behind this since I'm sending them money anyway...). It's just too convenient for the buyer. We can pay for the item and have it in hand most of the time before the money order would have reached the seller.
As a new seller, out of the 4 sales that I have had (2 ebay, 2 yahoo), 3 were paid by PayPal and one by check. They all ended at different times (all at least a week ago). All my PayPal items have been shipped and received. I'm still waiting on the 'check' to arrive. (And, there is the one Yahoo person I've never heard from...)
All my sales have been right at $50 or higher, but to me, it's worth the 1.9% or whatever to get paid fast and get the item out of my garage. But I do agree, that for the small item seller, especially one with lots of items, that the cost would be too high to take credit cards.
Anyway, for me, for now, I'll stick (and promote in my sales) with PayPal!!!
posted on September 17, 2000 06:23:24 PM new
Oh, but I forgot to add...
I did sign up with ExchangePath, and I will be promoting it in the auctions I am launching tonight. Actually, for the $10 bonus and $5 referral fee, I'm promoting it a little more than PayPal. Maybe it will stay free for awhile!
posted on September 17, 2000 07:43:19 PM new
Wanna bet that PayPal will soon increase fees yet again? One thing that I have learned is that once a business starts increasing its fees IT NEVER STOPS! Given the complete and total lack of ethics shown by PayPals continual practice of "Promises Made Promises Broken" I have not doubt whatsoever that 1.9% + $.25 an auction is just a "warm up" I would not be surprised to see them double fees right as the Christmas season gets going for online sellers, blaming it on higher energy prices, increased gravitational effects, winter solstice, Al Gore winning the election, and who knows what else! Think I am wrong? then email PayPal and ask them to sign a contract with you agreeing to no increases in any component of their free structure or any reductions in services for the next 12 months and see what happens!
posted on September 17, 2000 07:50:47 PM new
Don't forget; this is actually the second time Paypal has raised its rates. The first time (July), they went from free to 1.9%. The second time (October 1), they're adding the 25 cent per transaction fee.
posted on September 17, 2000 07:54:27 PM new
Yes, I agree that they will probably raise prices soon-everybody is, it seems. Which is why I am starting to promote Exchangepath over PayPal.
But, another one for the "Why we should accept credit cards online (from whoever)"-- an auction just ended 1/2 hour ago. I was going to wait until tomorrow to notify bidder because there seems to be problems with updated auction pages at eBay. Within 10 minutes of the auction close, my high bidder had paid me!!! With PayPal, of course, but he PAID ME!!!! Now, if only I can keep these people leaving me feedback....
. Be prepared for it.
