posted on October 9, 2003 01:31:08 PM new
Stop - the people who told me this were three different friends of mine from Mexico who also speak Japanese but struggle mightlily with english. I have another friend Who is Japanese and fluent in Spanish but still still struggles with english. Then there is my mentor and tormentor who is fluent in all three languages and has greetings and message instructions in all three on his answering machine which I have to sit thru everytime I try to get ahold of him who is an american that struggled with and temporarily gave up on japanese and turned to Spanish,, once he mastered spanish he said he was amazed at how much easier japanese was.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on October 9, 2003 02:12:21 PM new
during wwii,watching a movie in a theatre is a real treat in many countries.in japan on a sunday evening,the japanese housewife will leave her dishes in the sink and walked to the theatre with her hubby .while her hubby chatted with other japanese men in the lobby,she and other japanese wives went inside the theatre and find the pre assigned seat),sat and wait .
5 minutes before the show started ,the men said goodbye to each other in the lobby and went inside the theatre to find their respective wives.
when they found their wives,the wives then get up and let the hubbies have the seats and then they walked home to wash the dishes/by the way,japanese doctors do not like to prescribe birth control pills,abortions are common in japan
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
posted on October 9, 2003 02:15:07 PM new
spanish is easy,once you master english or french,spanish just comes naturally.but to say after mastering spanish,japanese is a song,this is the first.
but then if i know latin,sanskrit may just come easy too!!
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
posted on October 9, 2003 02:33:03 PM new
You're getting desperate helen. lol Nothing wrong with my facts or my statement. I didn't mention when you began posting, but rather when I began posting.
"I have posted on these boards since approx. 1997-1998 and have NEVER seen helen CONCEDE on anything."
posted on October 9, 2003 02:55:48 PM new
My oldest son married a Japanese girl. They have a one year old daughter. My son speaks Japanese very well....according to his wife and her parents.
My DIL said learning to read and write English in school was a breeze, which I found surprising. But then she's very intelligent. She said learning proper diction was the difficult part. I think she speaks English very well.
They wanted their child to speak both languages and their thinking was the earlier age they started with her, the easier it would be for her to learn. But they had concerns it might confuse her so they asked their pediatrician about it. She recommended they both speak their own language to her. Mom should be the only one speaking Japanese and Dad should only speak English to her and that way she'd learn how to properly enunciate the words.
I admire those of you who are able to speak more than one language. As most here know, I have trouble with the English one.
posted on October 9, 2003 04:09:30 PM new
One of the Japanese girls that I know from my favorite coffee spot jokes around alot about when she was working on her speaking skills. Her original teacher for conversational english was a full brogued Scot, then she had an Aussie teacher and finally one from the US. She jokes that she feels like she actually was learning three different languages. She is now interning in an african american owned business and working on the fourth.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Oct 9, 2003 04:48 PM ]
posted on October 9, 2003 04:40:07 PM new
While I lived in Tokyo, I knew a couple who had a 1-1/2 year old baby. She was American, he was French- the baby was learning three languages at once! He was pretty challenged- did things like smear feces on the walls- but I've known kids who did that anyway, without the language issues. And when I heard from them many years later, the boy was a wonderful little person. And he spoke five languages by that time- having added Russian and Spanish.
I like this thread much better now than when it started- even though CA IS full of idiots, it's too distressing to think about it more than once an hour...
"And All Shall be Well, and All Shall be Well, and All Manner of Things Shall be Well"
posted on October 11, 2003 09:02:28 PM new
The biggest problem I see for friends who are trying to learn spanish is that it has far more commonly used verbs than english, and the conjugation and use of those verbs is so different. To give an example, the spanish verb "to have" (to own or be in possession of), is 'tener'. Only one of it's present tense forms, "tiene", can mean he, she, it, or you (formal, singular) have. The pronouns accompanying this form are not normally used in conversation, so the meaning must be understood contextually.
Spanish speaking friends who are learning english seem to have more problems with pronunciation than grammar, as english has far fewer common verbs, and their forms are not as often irregular. What bedevils spanish speakers is the goofy way english vowels work in causing the pronunciation of a word, and often it's meaning, to change. lead,led and lead (the metal) are good examples, as well as school and book. Spanish vowels make only one sound, and they are never silent. There is a family of Chinese descent who live and work on my cousin's ranch in Chihuahua, it always amazes me how they can speak fluent chinese, spanish, and a mixture of the two when necessary, and yet english is giving them fits.
On the original topic, I have no comment...
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In this world of sin and sorrow, there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. -- H.L. Mencken
posted on October 11, 2003 09:05:29 PM new
BTW, dragonmom, I learned spanish and english at the same time. My son learned spanish, english and a native american language at the same time, he is fully tri-lingual. Neither of us has ever smeared poop on any walls, at least not on purpose
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In this world of sin and sorrow, there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. -- H.L. Mencken
posted on October 12, 2003 06:47:24 AM new
I believe you, Profe, and I know there are children in this world who smear feces and are only learning ONE language
Which N.A. language? I had lessons in Cherokee, for a while, through another auctionsite forum... I don't learn them as easy as I used to, but it would help if I were around a speaker, anyway.
I've noticed the link between Japanese and (Mexican) Spanish befopre- I see lots of Japanese style snacks for sale here in the Mexican food stores, if that's any indication
"And All Shall be Well, and All Shall be Well, and All Manner of Things Shall be Well"
posted on October 12, 2003 07:43:25 AM new
My wife is a full blooded member of the Jicarilla Apache Nation. She speaks fluent apache, as does her entire family. Our son learned apache along with spanish and english from birth. It isn't possible to really learn a language in an artificial setting like a classroom or online, you have to use it daily for it to become ingrained as part of you. My kid speaks english at school, as well as home. He speaks spanish with me and his sisters (who are not apache), and apache with his mom and her relatives, of whom there is almost always somebody around. On any given day around here it sounds like the tower of babel
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In this world of sin and sorrow, there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. -- H.L. Mencken
posted on October 12, 2003 07:46:30 AM new
BTW, there are many oriental Mexicans, just like there are many oriental Americans. Chinese food, and Japanese culture are very popular in Mexico. My favorite Chinese restaurant is in a little town in Sonora.
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In this world of sin and sorrow, there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. -- H.L. Mencken
posted on October 12, 2003 08:47:34 AM new
I was always kind of amazed at the huge number of Chinese restaurants in and around Mexicali and curious about the oriental features of many of the residents of the Baja area until I read up on a little history of Mexicali. Seems that a food manufacturer brought 1500 men from China to work their fields in Mexicali. They were all single men and no women were brought with them. Eventually these men acclimated into the community meeting, marrying and having children with the local Mexicanas and infusing the area with their culture. It's also somewhat interesting that it was not a Mexican company but rather a US company located in Calexico responsible for this importation of foreign nationals into another the area and eventually it's bloodlines.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on October 12, 2003 10:52:15 AM new
There have also been large numbers of asian people who sought to enter the US thru Mexico when the US was limiting asian immigration numbers. Many of them just never made it across the border and instead became Mexicans over time. The cultural variations in different Mexican locales, especially along the border, are interesting, and not well known to lots of North Americans. If you spend any time in Nogales, Sonora or Nogales, Arizona, you'll find lots of Stars of David on shop signs on both sides of the border. Many of the early traders who came to this area were Jews from the Eastern US. Their presence attracted Jewish business people from Mexico City, where there has always been a significant Jewish population.
Then there are the Kikapoos, a tribe of North American indians, many of whom are black due to their sheltering of runaway slaves. The Kikapoos migrate yearly across the US border to communal land they have been given in Mexico, where they are also citizens. Native Americans, who are black, speak three languages, and have dual citizenship.
I won't even mention the Mennonites in Chihuahua, who still dress like Pennsylvania Dutch and speak German and spanish, the list goes on and on.
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In this world of sin and sorrow, there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. -- H.L. Mencken
posted on October 12, 2003 10:53:43 AM new
profe - Neither of us has ever smeared...
I really got a good laugh out of that one. SO glad to hear it.
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dragonmom - not meaning to offend you, in any way, but when you made that statement I found it odd. Had never read where introducing young children to two different languages would cause such a response. Many unsupervised children might do that, but I'd never heard of it being related to language.
posted on October 12, 2003 11:09:49 AM new
Actually linda, if dragonmom doesn't mind me butting in..there are lots of 3rd and 4th generation Americans of Mexican and other hispanic descent who don't speak spanish any more because their parents thought they would be "confused" by learning two languages at once, and so stressed english. It used to be a fairly common attitude in the 50's. Stressing english is important obviously, but it doesn't have to be done to the detriment of any other language. Language isn't just a communication means, it's a well of culture. There are aspects of any culture that will be lost when they can no longer be explained in the native language of that culture.
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In this world of sin and sorrow, there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. -- H.L. Mencken
posted on October 12, 2003 11:24:44 AM new
Prof... I'm beginning to wonder if I want to live and work in Mexico or just spend time exploring it. With so many different cultures and background mixing I would love to explore the differnces in cultures and artistic styles from the different areas. When you mention the Mennonites in Chihuahua I keep picturing some strange combination of Penn Dutch primary figures and colors with the round Aztec piece sold in 18 different colors of plaster and covered in glitter at every border crossing
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on October 12, 2003 01:11:39 PM new
I know what you mean. Mexico has a real "live and let live" attitude, and the blending of cultures there is really interesting. Here's a pic for you of the "round Aztec piece"...it's actually the Mexica Sun Stone, not a "calendar" as it is often described. It's in the Museum of Anthropology, in Parque Chapultepec, in Mexico City. I was there on business about a month ago and had a free day, so I spent it at the museum with my girls. My youngest has an archaeological bent and I could hardly get her out of the place. I've been to museums all over the world, and there are very few that can compare with this one. A must visit for anyone thinking about working or living in Mexico. It's not the best shot in the world, they don't allow flash photography, and the place is lit in a way that is not the best for existing light shots. I really wished I'd had a tripod...
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In this world of sin and sorrow, there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. -- H.L. Mencken
[ edited by profe51 on Oct 12, 2003 01:12 PM ]
[ edited by profe51 on Oct 12, 2003 01:13 PM ]
posted on October 12, 2003 03:53:46 PM new
I had always heard it referred to as a calendar but it didn't quite strike me as right - thank you for the clarification. I'm dying to go to Mexico City but my friends there keep telling my horror stories and telling me that I will not be allowed to be alone while there yet they are not quite the arts and museum types. Did you ever watch American Family? There is an episode at the end of the season where they are in an art or cultural center that features these spectacular murals. I just kept wishing they would show more of them and less of the lovelorn Esai Morales but no such luck. You wouldn't happen to know the name of that centre would you. I need to put it on my hit list of locations to visit.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on October 12, 2003 09:22:40 PM new
Stonecold and Miscreant, hush! We are finally talking abut something besides politics, what a relief...
Anyways, -no, I don't think that learning three languages at once had anything to do with his behaivior, and I don't know what it was- high-strung parents with a high-strung child possibly. As I say the boy turned out wonderful, eventually...
Profe, you probably know of the theory that teh Native American Peoples migrated across the Siberian bridge into the Americas? So these recent Chinese immigrants into Mexico are meeting their cousins.
I read somehwere that pretty much anyone who has more than three generations of ancestors living in North America, has Native Indian blood. Far more N.A's assimilated into white and African American culture- and many many A.A's assimilated into N.A. culture. The Cherokee and Blackfoot tribes notably.
"And All Shall be Well, and All Shall be Well, and All Manner of Things Shall be Well"
posted on October 12, 2003 09:28:38 PM new
Actually Dragonmom their is a new theory that Aboriginies were the first to arrive in the Americas. There has been Aboriginie DNA found in natives in Patagonia. The theory is that the nothern asians drove them south or assimilated them.
posted on October 12, 2003 09:43:51 PM new
[slipping in here - not wanting to change the discussion going on]
No, profe - didn't mind a bit. I was that generation you spoke of.
I had Mexican and Cuban friends in junor high and high school. None spoke Spanish even though their parents and grandparents did. And since most lived as extended families in one house, I thought that odd they wouldn't have automatically picked it up. But I witnessed, it was discouraged to do so. Glad that's changed.
posted on October 12, 2003 09:49:08 PM new
fenix: Traveling in Mexico City is like traveling to any giant metropolis, you don't do dumb stuff and you're pretty well going to be ok.You wouldn't intentionally walk down a dark side street in a bad part of Chicago or LA right? The big danger in M.C. right now for tourists is taxi crime. Cab drivers have a series of accomplices at various ATM's around the city. They pick up a likely looking tourist fare, then hold them captive while they drive around to the ATMs. Their helpers force the tourist to make withdrawals at the machines until their cards won't work anymore, then they take all their jewelery and valuables, and if they're real lucky they get stranded on the street. The unlucky ones get dead. So you only take cabs that are authorized by your hotel, and there are lots of them, waiting at your hotel. Your doorman will show you to the right ones. They cost about 30% more than the street cabs, but how much is your life worth? In addition, most of the drivers are bilingual and knowlegeable about the city, and their cars are nicer. If you ride the metro, you leave your fancy watch, jewelry and camera at your hotel and only carry money you'll need for the day. Look like everybody else, and look everybody in the eye. Pickpockets are the problem on the metro and on buses. I took my 13 year old daughter and her older sister with me last trip, and we didn't have any problems. We stayed 4 nights in a hotel and then two with friends in Coyoacan, one of the Mexico City "suburbs". No problems, and it's not because we're latino. Latino tourists are often the targets of more resentment than Anglo tourists. Don't let it frighten you. GO!! If I recall that episode of American Family, the murals you're talking about are at the Palacio Nacional, the Mexican Capital building, in the Zocalo. They are Diego Rivera's images of the history of Mexico, and are not to be missed. I'll see if I have a pic somewhere.
dragonmom: Native Americans fall into the "Mongolian" classification of human racial types. There are lots of similarities, genotypically and physically. Blood type, epicanthic folds on the eyes, etc. Some tribes, including my wife's, have what is called the "Mongolian spot", which is a darker patch of skin at the base of a newborn's spine, right on the tailbone. It usually fades with age. My wife and son both have these. This is a feature which I've heard is only shared with Northern Mongolian tribes of Asia. I think there's little doubt about the relationship between asians and the indigenous people of the Americas.
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In this world of sin and sorrow, there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. -- H.L. Mencken
